Judy Perlman:
Hello everyone. My name is Judy Perlman. I am a co-president of Brandeis National Committee, the Conejo Valley Chapter here in Southern California. We are thrilled to bring you this webinar today. As I said, I'm the co-president, and the other co-president is Elaine Bercy, and she'd just like to say hi too. Elaine?
Elaine Bercy:
Hello, and welcome to our webinar.
Judy Perlman:
Cool. So we're just thrilled to present this panel discussion here on American Judaism. First, we want to thank a couple of people for helping us. Since we are a chapter, we're not used to doing these kinds of things. Beth Bernstein has been very supportive, and Alex Glomset at Brandeis National Committee has been both supportive in terms of technical support as well, and we thank you, Alex.
Judy Perlman:
So let's get on to this discussion. I'm going to introduce the moderator of this discussion, and his name is Justin Regan. He is going to be the moderator, and he's the creator and executive producer of the American Rabbi Project, which is a podcast, so maybe you might have been fortunate enough to hear his podcast. He works to interview at least one rabbi in every state about their thoughts on Judaism in the United States. The podcast recently completed its second season profiling rabbis from more than a dozen states across the country. Justin has been a journalist for seven years with several stories aired on National Public Radio.
Judy Perlman:
And now I'll introduce Justin Regan. Enjoy, everyone.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much, Judy. Thank you all for tuning in today. I hope you and your families have been staying healthy. I'm personally very grateful to be here, and I just want to quickly thank Judy Perlman, Elaine Bercy, Sue Geiger, the Brandeis National Committee, the Conejo Valley Chapter of the Brandeis National Committee, Brandeis University, our lovely panelists, and most importantly I want to thank you for tuning in today and giving us your precious time.
Justin Regan:
The way this is going to work is I'm going to briefly just introduce my podcast, what I do, and then we will jump into the panel. For the last two years or so, I've been traveling around the country putting a lot of miles on my card, crashing on a lot of couches, and eating way too much fast food, all in kind of an attempt to make up all the Hebrew school I didn't attend when I was a kid. That is primarily what American Rabbi Project is, it's me growing in my Judaism, and because of that, tackling some of the complex issues that involves.
Justin Regan:
When I grew up in my interfaith secular family, the story of Jews in America was pretty straightforward, or at least it seemed pretty straightforward. There was America is this land of opportunity and freedom, and our ancestors would be happy, full stop. But every day it becomes more painfully obvious that that is ... it's a little more nuanced than that. Some people would say that for the last several years things have been changing, others would say that nothing's really changed in the last several years, just our perception of things that have always been.
Justin Regan:
Anti-Semitism is on the rise, people are more angry and polarized, a lot of echo chambers on the internet, and then even in the last several months, there has been a global pandemic, massive economic recession, and worldwide calls for racial and social justice. A lot of veneers are being ripped away, and more people are having these conversations about the concept of American exceptionalism. That's the case in the Jewish community, and it's certainly been the case with me personally.
Justin Regan:
As I grew more in my Judaism, I became more aware of a lot of the questions that Jews today have to face, questions of identity, am I more Jewish or am I more American? Questions of assimilation, have Jews changed customs and traditions to appease a dominant culture, or is that something that is being done to build a better Judaism? Is interfaith marriage the downfall of our people, or a beautiful way of weaving ourselves into the multi ethnic fabric? And of course there are questions about America itself, is this truly a land of freedom and opportunity?
Justin Regan:
This is why I decided to create American Rabbi Project, to unpack the complexities of being Jewish in the United States by talking to rabbis from every corner of the country, and to get every voice involved, Reform, Renewal, Conservative, Orthodox, Hasidic, Sephardic, Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Jews of Color beyond the monolithics. Also, to get geographical diversity, to learn the stories of the Jewish communities of Utah, Maine, West Virginia, the south, and of course to hear from some very fascinating rabbis.
Justin Regan:
I interviewed one rabbi who's an activist, and she says protest is her form of prayer. I've talked to another rabbi who grew up in Egypt and was imprisoned in that country, and had to flee as a refugee to the United States. I've talked to a rabbi who came out as gay to his prominent DC congregation, and was mostly embraced for it, and I've talked to a rabbi who on the side produces rap albums in ladino. A lot of interesting characters. At the end of the day, rabbis are teachers, and there's no better time now than to turn to our educators, and that's exactly what we're going to do today.
Justin Regan:
We're going to have a discussion with some teachers. For the last two years, I've been talking to rabbis all over the country, but today I'm honored to speak with three rabbis who are from the area that I grew up, and that is the Conejo Valley/Ventura County area just north of Los Angeles. I'm going to ask them questions I like to ask all rabbis, and then you also have a chance to ask some questions too, just type them into the Q&A section. I'll try to get in as many of them as possible.
Justin Regan:
So right now, panelists, if you could just raise your hand when I say your name, and we'll go from there. First, please welcome Rabbi Michele Paskow from Congregation B'nai Emet in Simi Valley, Rabbi Lisa Bock from Ojai Jewish Community, and Rabbi Ari Averbach from Temple Etz Chaim in Thousand Oaks.
Justin Regan:
So first question I'm going to ask will be for all of us, but we'll start with Rabbi Paskow. This is something I like to start every interview I do with all the rabbis I interview, which is how would you describe your job as a rabbi, and why did you decide to become one?
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
You're asking that on one foot, right?
Justin Regan:
Of course, yeah.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
First of all, I'm really honored to be here. Thank you to Sue Geiger, who is my initial contact that led me to Justin, and had some nice conversations with Justin. It's nice to be able to share together across the country with people.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
So my feelings about being my job as a rabbi, I would say it's truly amazing. It's a profound experience, and it's deeply fulfilling. On one hand, it allows me to help, to teach, to guide, and lead people; and on the other hand, it's a lifelong process of learning, and growing, and struggling, and reaching for more. I'm blessed to live in this time period when women can study Torah in depth and be spiritual leaders to men and women, and I feel like it's a very important job because I'm able to bridge ... I'm a link in this chain of Jewish tradition.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
As you said, rabbis are educators, and what's funny is my dad is a rabbi, and I grew up with going to synagogue all the time, but I never really imagined being a rabbi. My own journey always brings me back to Judaism, and that's my comfort. My parents sent me to an Orthodox girls high school in Israel for a year, and I came back Orthodox for many years. That was a wonderful experience. Ended up taking Hebrew at UCLA, went back to Israel to study, and someone said, "You should be a rabbi," and I said, "How will I ever be a rabbi?" And that person said, "Well, there will always be those who will accept you, and there will always be those who won't."
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
It was like the music went on, I got back on the bus, went to Hebrew Union College in Jerusalem, applied, took all the tests, and called my parents and said, "I'm going to New York to rabbinical school." So it's been really a profound experience, and something I just love. So it's got a lot of challenges, but it's got a lot of blessings.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. My apologies, Rabbi Ari Averbach, not Avi. That is ... so sorry from me. Can you please answer the question? How would you describe your job as a rabbi? Why did you decide to become one?
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
So becoming a rabbi's maybe an easier question to answer in some way. Maybe, maybe not. The shorter version of it is I was working in the film industry hating most days of my life. It was neat to talk to some of the great filmmakers, actors, actresses, directors, and producers, but it wasn't fulfilling for me.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
One day, my mom called me and said, "You've got to come to shul this weekend, this woman is speaking about her trip to the refugee camps outside Darfur." I thought, "Well, that's ... sure." So I went, and I was blown away. I quit my job the next day, and I emailed, it was Janice Camanor-Reznik, and I emailed her and said, "Can I come volunteer for you while I try to figure out what's next in my life?"
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I ended up working for her organization, Jewish World Watch, this anti-genocide organization for two-and-a-half years. During my time there, the co-founder of the organization was Rabbi Harold Schulweis, bless his memory, and he sat me down one day and he said, "You're going to be a rabbi." I said, "No, this is kind of a stopover before I go back to HBO or something like that."
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
But he put the bug in me, I started reading and doing some research, and talking to people at the Ziegler School in Los Angeles. I didn't tell anybody that I applied because I didn't know what I was going to do, and I applied and I ended up loving rabbinical school. Working as a rabbi, not always, and right now is very strange, but in general it feels a bit like winning the lottery.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
When I asked Rabbi Schulweis why he wanted to be a rabbi ... and he was published, I have five of his books, there's articles, there's books written about him, he was an incredible teacher and leader. He said the most interesting part of his time as a rabbi was being with people in their most important moments in their lives, under the chuppah with them, on the bimah for a Bar Mitzvah, at a baby naming in the hospital, at a funeral, these are the most important moments. I found that to be incredible, and very true that being with people, and learning with them, and sitting with them in their troubles is really quite a fulfilling life to lead.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. And then of course, Rabbi Bock. How did you become ... how would you describe your job? Why did you decide to become a rabbi?
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
Let me just first say, this is my third career. I started ... my first career was a systems analyst and programmer. I designed computer systems in C and COBOL more years ago than I would really like to admit. After that, I had a career for about 20 years as a real estate appraiser, and worked in the Conejo Valley, San Fernando Valley, and loved my work. I had my own business and was able to raise children while I did that. It gave me a great deal of flexibility.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
But about midway in that career, I began to volunteer at my temple. My home temple, Temple Adat Elohim in Thousand Oaks, and began volunteering and welcoming Jewish choices, encouraging Jewish choices, and working with the URJ, Union for Reformed Judaism, and with interfaith couples, and those who are new to Judaism and returning to Judaism. Along that way, I found myself doing a little bit of teaching, to which I felt not quite up to the task, so I started learning and reading books, so all my extra time was between raising children and doing my work as an appraiser, I would be reading and learning.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
Then I went to conferences and things like that, so the more I learned, the more excited I got about my Judaism. Then not unlike what Rabbi Michele was saying, somebody comes up to me and says, "Have you thought about becoming a rabbi?" And my answer was no. After about the sixth time, I began to listen to that question, and then it took me even more time to actually realize that that may actually be a real question for me, and I went ahead and followed that.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
But it's really been a love affair for me with learning and teaching, and being with people. Some of these moments that I just can't barely put words to, which is to be with people in their most sensitive moments when someone is perhaps passing, or in the moments when he becomes Bar or Bat Mitzvah and the joy of the family. These are so precious, and such a gift. It is such a privilege to be able to be a rabbi.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. So for the next question, I think we're just going to jump straight into this. Many Jews struggle with questions of whether or not they're more Jewish or more American, like I said earlier. I like asking broad questions. How do you see the Jewish identity fitting into the larger fabric of the American identity? And let's start this time with Rabbi Averbach.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
Gosh. This is what I was brought up with was this question of are you a Jewish American, or an American Jew? I remember being a kid like, "I don't understand this question," and every counselor and every leader, whatever, would try to explain what they were talking about, and how they see one as an adjective and one as a noun. The truth is, I don't know if I get that much into parsing out the words.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I'm proud to be an American. I find that the rights that we have in this country, and the freedoms that we have in this country, and the protections, are incredible. I also know how fragile they are, that if you ask Germans in 1920, they felt the same thing, and if you ask the Russians, if you asked any of our ancestors at any point, in Spain in the 1300s, whenever it is, they feel that same way. So it's holding onto both of those things at the same time.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I'm lucky that I was raised as a conservative Jew. Even though I don't know if the movements quite exist per person or per household the same way they have to for a movement, or for an institution, I find that I'm able to now go back and forth. So my random bookshelf that I have behind me is a mixture of books that are deeply Jewish and deeply American and fun. And one that speaks out because I can see it in my reflection is this one, Congregation, which is they took every book of the Jewish Bible and had an explanation and discussion about it with these deep American intellectuals.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
To be able to wed those together I think is really beautiful, and it's part of our job knowing also most of our congregants, or most of the people in our life, are not ... are more American than they are deeply Jewish. We have one kosher restaurant in the area, which is fantastic by the way. But still, we're just trying to find that balance in life, and see if we can keep all the balls in the air as we juggle all the things that we are.
Justin Regan:
Rabbi Bock, same question. How do you see the Jewish identity fitting into the larger American fabric?
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
My experience is as I live and breathe, I'm Jewish. I can travel all around the world and come home to this is my country, which is America. I'm Jewish, I live in America, and I'm American. I love my country. I am not likely to, I love living here, but I cannot ... what I can say is just that if I were to choose to live in another country, then I would live there, but I'm not. I love America, I love living here in the United States. Wherever I would go and wherever I would travel, I am a Jew, so I'm not quite sure how to parse those words better than that, but wherever I go, that is who I am. Thank you.
Justin Regan:
Well done. And then Rabbi Paskow.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
On my mother's side, and she's Jewish, and these are all lines of Jewish. I'm sixth generation American. I was once trying to explain to my son, those back car conversations when the child's in the backseat and you're talking through the rear view mirror, I was trying to explain why we don't eat certain foods on Passover. I was trying to explain that we're Ashkenazi Jews, and he said, "Oh, we're European?" I said, "No, we're sixth generation on grandma's side."
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
So I'm Ashkenazi Jew, and I'm an American Jew. That's my custom, that's my nusach, that's my culture, that's my comfort. I think that's part of my identity and who I am. I understand the fragileness of our society. If you look at, I was thinking about this, those of you that are in the LA area have gone to the Skirball Museum, and when you walk into the big synagogue exhibit, it's the Oranienburger Strasse Synagogue, which was built in the late 1800s, early 1900s, in Berlin. It's huge, it would seat 3,000 people, and you think ... obviously they thought they were going to be there for the next 500 years to build a beautiful place like that.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I have no idea what will happen, but I'm American, this is my culture, my country. I think that our values as Jewish values certainly embrace and even have shaped American culture and American values. In the old Silverman Siddur, in the back, there's a nice passage in there, and it shows passages from our American documents, and it shows how they're based in Biblical passages. I think that they go hand in hand. Maybe the bigger question is how are we a minority, but there's so many minority groups that we're part of the fold. The bigger question is how do we not completely assimilate away? That's kind of what I see.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
And that's what Rabbi Ari was saying, that it's ... how do we hold on to what's Jewish, and not just ... we are American, that's the bigger problem, and maybe that ties in with the intermarriage question as well. So it's how do you hold on? Because we're the minority religion, so if you don't do anything, by default you'll have Christmas or whatever. Everybody has a something when it's a holiday time, so I'm very ... embrace our American values, and try to juggle how do I hold on to what are my Jewish values, and balance it out.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. That's actually a very great transition to the next question, which is really how do you hold on to the Jewish identity? What are some of the challenges of being Jewish in America? Rabbi Bock, if you can get us started on that.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
I think it is challenging, and I think that being a Jew today, and perhaps always, but I think especially today is being a Jew is for all of us, a choice. It is a choice to practice, to learn, to be in community, and I think that these are all elements that we, in our families, in ourselves, in our communities, we have to seek out and really work for to be Jewish. I have often kind of just felt like I'm breathing, I'm Jewish. And it's not just that, we have to work at it, otherwise, like what Michele said, it's really easy just to blend into, and just kind of not really find where we actually are.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
So much of the time I encounter people, and even discover myself, which elements to our tradition that is like, "Oh, wow, this is beautiful. This is meaningful." This is something that ... sometimes people will say, "I wish I had known that we have that in our tradition. We have a depth of spirituality in our tradition that's that? Wow. We believe this? It's beautiful." Our values can guide us, and I think it really is about seeking it. One, knowing it's there, seeking it, embracing it, and keeping it as an ongoing lifelong learning as Jews.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
That is a value that I take to heart, and really do my best to convey. Really just loving Judaism is both my job as well as to convey, and the more I can do that, I think the better my job goes. Thank you.
Justin Regan:
Thank you. And yeah, definitely I've spoken to a lot of rabbis who will bring up stuff about how there can sometimes be a need for more education, how some people don't even realize things about their own Judaism. So Rabbi Paskow, same question.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I'm thinking of Maimonides who on one hand was a man of deep faith, and on the other hand was a man of science and reason and rationale. He had the idea of what's called in Hebrew the shvil hazahav, the golden path. So it's really a juggling act if you are a modern Jewish person, and then we live in an open society, and we have so many choices. You go to the supermarket or Costco, and there's all kinds of brands and choices, and we have to figure out what are our boundaries.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
So just as parents set boundaries for their kids, we set boundaries. How can I be involved in Jewish life? What's important to me? What's something I'm going to support? For example, being involved in Brandeis is a way of continuing education, being involved, and sense of community, and connecting in some way with other people that enjoy learning, and that enjoy being stimulated and pushed to the next level. So I think that the Jewish life today involves so much opportunity, and even more so now.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I was just on a webinar this morning, and people were talking about how have things changed with this? Well, there's more learning opportunities than ever before. I don't know if this is Brandeis's first podcast, if you will, or webinar, Zoom session like this, but we went to a new format and there's more people. We're able to go beyond the Conejo Valley to across the country. So there's a lot of opportunity in Jewish life, and it's how do we challenge ourselves to connect? What will speak to me?
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
Everybody connects in different ways, whether it's a social action, or it's a religious thing, or it's a book group, but there's a lot of ways to be involved. To me, it's really like, like Lisa said, Rabbi Lisa, it's pretty exciting. It doesn't have to only be one way. It doesn't only have to be all or nothing, it's whatever we can do, and that's the beauty of it right now.
Justin Regan:
Yeah, and then Rabbi Averbach.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
To be last with each of these questions. To me, it's that Rabbi Bock started with, where we are now, and Rabbi Paskow brought it back to where we were 1,000 years ago with Rambam, so just to continue that phase. Anyway, I think 2,000 years ago with the Rabbis of the Mishnah and the Talmud, I think they were struggling with the same exact question of how do you be ... the whole theme of the Talmud, of whatever it is, 5,000 pages of the Talmud, is how do you be Jewish when we don't have autonomy anymore?
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
The temple is destroyed, we don't have any way to be Jewish in one place. Now that we're living all over the place in Tiberias, in Baghdad, in Turkey, and Greece, and Egypt. How are you Jewish? What do you hold on to? What do you do? That's the through line, the first words of the Mishnah 2,000 years ago, say from when in the evening do we say Shema? They're trying to figure out how do you even approach Judaism now?
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
We're in this place of how do we bring in Shema? There's pages on Kashrut, and there's pages on ... chapters, books on Shabbat and the holidays. How do you do this now? And I think we're in this very same place this year, is the rabbis 2,000 years ago were saying, "What is Yom Kippur look like if we can't sacrifice animals?" And this year we're going, "What does Yom Kippur look like if we can't have 1,500 people in a room? We can have maybe 100 if we're spaced out and everybody's wearing masks, but you can't sing and there's no bathrooms."
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
All these questions, can you hear the Shofar on the Zoom? Does that count if you go into a place and ... so I think the questions they asked 2,000 years ago are still so alive for us now of how are you a committed Jew while living in Bowdo, while living in Babylon in this far away distant kingdom that's friendly to us, it's just not our home.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
So I think we can turn to our ancient texts and thank God each other ... the rabbis have been very good to each other the last couple of months, supporting each other. What are you doing? How is it working for you? Are you doing minyan in person? So it's been nice to rely on each other, and on our colleagues from 2,000 years ago.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. And that actually ... we can actually go into that right now. There has been a lot of change going on in the world, and Rabbi Averbach, you can be the first one on this. Has there been a particular piece of Jewish text or ritual that has helped you through the pandemic?
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I was going to make a joke. I'll skip the joke. So for me-
Justin Regan:
No, jokes are great. Rabbis are all about jokes.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
Right. The great Talmudic sage said about Zoom. But for me, one of the texts that came out to me early on in this was actually from last week's Parsha, which is saying that what if you can't celebrate Pesach? Pesach is one of those few things, along with brit milah, having a bris, that you've got to do. Everything else, keep Shabbat, keeping kosher, whatever, you should, but if you don't that's okay.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
Pesach is one of those is you have to do, Pesach Seder. Some people come to Moses and say, "We weren't able to do Pesach this year, what do we do?" And Moses has the most beautiful answer in all of Torah. He says, "I don't know. Let me ask God." So he turns and asks God, and says, "God, what do we do if we can't do Pesach this year? If there's people who for other reasons are impure and just can't do Pesach this year?" And God gives a multi leveled answer saying, "Anybody who is distant," just kind of an odd word there, as in distant in purity or physically or in mentality towards Judaism, "Anybody who's distant right now, they can celebrate Pesach a month later when it's the appropriate time for them."
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
To think, at the beginning we thought this is going to be three weeks, we'll miss Pesach, but we can do it a couple weeks later. That came and went. But to think of where we are in Judaism, and have ... first of all, this answer of I don't know that Moshe Rabbenu, Moses, the great leader can say, "I don't know," in all of his humility, then God gives this very ... pardon the word, but liberal answer saying, "You know what, this is important. If you can't do it in its prescribed time, do it when you can."
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
So for me, this is what Judaism has become recently. We can't get together for minyan, let's do it on ... let's find a way to make it happen however we can make it happen.
Justin Regan:
Thank you. It's interesting, since this started I have been going to more Shabbat dinners, I had more Seders this year than I usually attend. It's just something about ... especially back a couple months ago when people were more willing to do Zoom stuff, it was just ... so I guess there has been some little advantages to it here and there.
Justin Regan:
And Rabbi Bock, same question. What's really been helping you get through this?
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
A daily practice that I have, and I've had it for quite a while, actually since rabbinical school, is something that I have especially done and been thankful to have as a Jewish resource, which is really a morning prayer. Modeh ani lefanecha, which the full text of the prayers basically saying ... my interpretation of it is, "Thank you, God, for restoring my soul in me, and my breath, my ability to have life as I wake up each morning, and to be able to be ensouled, and remembering that I'm a physical being as well as spiritual being, and here a mesh of both, being able to be out in life, and into the world."
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
So I find that practice grounding, and then it takes me forward. It gives me a way to meet each day no matter what it brings. I do have to second that notion of this Zoom has made an abundance of learning and connection so abundant for us, so I am very appreciative of it as well. That is something. But as a practice as something going forward, it's really that daily morning prayer as I begin to become conscious and realize that I'm alive again each morning, and to be an ensouled being. A soul in a body moving through time, as my teacher says.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
So I am grateful for that, and for the practice that Jewish tradition gives us.
Justin Regan:
Rabbi Paskow.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I have two. One is I like to do stretches every day, so I made up my own routine where I do the eloheinu shema with my stretches, which is basically, "God, the soul you have given me is pure." So that's kind of a morning one, and of course neshamah and the word lishon, to breathe, are related, so that ties in with what Rabbi Lisa was saying.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
The other thing that has been amazing is that because I'm doing Zoom Shabbat every Friday for our congregation, it's been a real anchor for me and the congregation, like all of you. You see each other, so we see we're okay trapped behind the computer box, if you will, but we see each other and it's very affirming.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I think what's been great is ... I want to read one of the prayers. It's an alternative version of the Aleinu by Rabbi Rami Shapiro, I don't know if people have heard of him. He's a brilliant poet, and he's taken many prayer and rewritten them into modern poetry. It's short, and I'll share it with everyone. I think it's really beautiful.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
It's up to us to hallow creation, to respond to life with the fullness of our lives. It is up to us to meet the world and embrace the whole, even as we wrestle with its parts. It is up to us to repair the world and to bind our lives to truth, therefore we bend the knee and shake off the stiffness that keeps us from the subtle graces of life, and the supple gestures of love. With reverence and thanksgiving, we accept our destiny and set for ourselves the task of redemption.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
So that one I think is very uplifting, and the other one that I love is the nighttime prayer, the hashkiveinu. And for those of you that grew up ... I grew up Conservative Movement when we had the old ... the Silverman Siddur, page 19, we read this every Friday. It's old poetry, but I find myself thinking about it. I made a copy of it, and it's again, very helpful. The hashkiveinu prayer I always joke and say it's Jewish version of "Now I lay me down to sleep."
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
Like Rabbi Ari was saying, we're not the first ones to go through times of uncertainty and challenges and struggles. This prayer is a prayer that may we go to sleep and get some sleep? Some people can't sleep. And may we wake up to life renewed. Again, we have these beautiful prayers, and they're very helpful and optimistic, and uplifting. It doesn't mean our heads are in the sand to the reality of what's going on in the world around us, it's just a way to pick ourselves up so you don't watch the news constantly and sink into the mire of everything, but that you have the ability to pick yourself up. And as rabbis, pick other people up too, and help them.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
Somebody put in the chat about helping people and what do we do? Well, first we have to pick ourselves up to be able to lift up other people. These prayers are ... that's what they're meant to do. The rabbis wrote these prayers, some of these prayers. We can write our own prayers today, but they're beautiful words of poetry meant to be uplifting, meant to take us out of just the narrowness of life, and just to open us up to the bigger picture as well.
Justin Regan:
Thank you. So another issue that's been in the world a lot today, as I said earlier, was a lot of protests around the country, a lot of calls for racial justice. There's been a lot of this going on in the ... not just in the news, but around the country in general. So we'll start with Rabbi Bock, kind of similar to what Jewish text, Jewish teachings kind of helped you acknowledge that? What kind of teachings and text helped you kind of make sense of what's going on, and maybe a way how to respond to this, and what role can you play for us?
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
I look to some of our texts, just one to recognize that we are each made B’tselem Elohim, as says in Genesis 1:27 that we are made in the image of God. Whatever the image means, but that there is something that is precious, that is beautiful, about being human and the potential for humanity, and that we are to recognize the human dignity within each person, and recognize that divine quality in each of us.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
It says in Proverbs, the human being is the candle of God. Again, I kind of have that theme that I often think about, which is that within each of us is the spark of the divine, and we're to recognize that. I also resonate very much with the Jewish value of [Hebrew], do not stand idly by, but love your neighbor. We have a responsibility not only to recognize human dignity and spark of the divine within each human being, but also that we are not to just stand idly by. We are to do something.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
The other piece of it is that I think that we have a great deal of Talmud Torah, which his learning to do with it, so that rather than just simply leaping into action unless it's an emergency, we should also bring in a component of learning and listening to what we do so that we can be informed, and make informed choices about what we do. Thank you.
Justin Regan:
Rabbi Averbach.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I think Rabbi Lisa, Rabbi Bock, said it really nicely, and the fact that she ... in everything she said, and everything everybody said so far, but in showing all the different parts of our Bible that talk about this. I think this is the point of religion, to find sanctity and holiness in everything that we do, and in every person we encounter. You can open up to nearly any page of our Bible, and it tells us to take care of the stranger, the orphan, the widow, those who are outsiders, those who are not us, to love your neighbors, yourself, every person.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I think it's from the beginning, this is what Judaism is. One other to add to the list is the first two questions maybe in the Book of Genesis. One is Cane saying, "Am I my brother's keeper?" And the rest of the book, the rest of the whole Torah, and the rest of the whole Bible is just the answer, "Yes, you are. You are your brother's keeper."
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
The second, the other one of the first questions of the Torah before that is after Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit, and God calls out to them and says, "Ayeka, where are you? This is going on in the world, where are you?" So those are speaking to me as well, but really it's amazing how every week I open up the Torah to see, "All right, what's this Parsha? What are we going to do to teach this and somehow relate it back to the world." Every week I just go, "Yep, this relates back as well." So everything.
Justin Regan:
Rabbi Paskow?
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
Yeah, and what my colleagues shared, that's beautiful. I would just add that we know tzedek tzedek tirdof, justice, justice, shall you pursue? One of the underlying values of all of Judaism is the idea of justice. Not Justin, but justice. Pursuing justice, helping the vulnerable in society, trying to care about people, the marginalized, and of course we know veahavta lereacha kamocha, love your neighbor as yourself, but also in Hillel's golden rule. Hillel just flips it, "What is hateful unto yourself, don't do unto others."
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I don't to boil down Judaism to that, but one of the essence, the main ideas of course, is to ... and many of the rules, even in ancient times in that context. I'm not saying it would fit in our context today, but many of the rules that were implemented in the Torah in ancient times were meant to help people. We may not follow those things today, but even the laws that they had for servants were laws of kindness to people, laws that gave them more rights than people had in the general society.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I think we have this notion of tikkun olam, helping the world, and looking to help people. We just read in the Parsha a couple weeks ago about the Jubilee Years, so it was the 50th year, but the debts that held people, or someone that had to sell themselves into slavery, they were redeemed so they could pick up the pieces again. So I think those are profound lessons that we have, and values in our tradition, that are certainly applicable, and that guide us even today.
Justin Regan:
Moving on to a particular topic, which has been something discussed a lot in my podcast. It seems to be a major issue in a lot of American Jewish circles, is the concept of inter religious marriage. So the rates in the United States and Jewish community are going up, and it seems to be with every generation it goes up. So with this, how should the community address this? And we will start with Rabbi Paskow.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I think that we ... it is. It's not a discussion at this point anymore. This is the reality. In my congregation, we're at least 50% interfaith couples, families, and I welcome people. Whoever wants to come is part of the family. Whoever wants to be involved, I'm not out to convert people one way or another, but if they want to be part of the community, part of the family, I invite them to be engaged and to participate.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I always joke because I grew up at the temple where Rabbi Averbach is now the rabbi, and it was a small congregation, small community, small suburb at the time. We didn't have a lot of people, so I always joked my dad was ahead of his time in the 70s. If someone came, you have a brain, here's a part. He didn't care if you were a man, a woman, a this or a that. Everybody had a something.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I think that's what the Jewish community ... we're doing that. I think that's what we need to do. If people want to be involved and they want to learn about Judaism, we're not in a position to turn people away. We need to be welcoming, engaging, uplifting, and welcome people in. And we're seeing that, that the Jewish community is very diverse. We're learning from our mistakes, we're learning from things that people have done that maybe aren't so kind.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
Anyone who wants to come and be involved today, to me, is part of the family, whether they ... if they go through conversion, that's their choice. If they're supporting their family in Jewish tradition, Jewish rituals, having their kids have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah, that's part of the family to me. In the Torah times, there were always extended members of the Jewish community, and I think that we have to really be welcoming and engaging to people.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
And in general in society, so that's a good lesson for all of us. How can we be harmonious to help people work together? In the Jewish community, to reach out and to welcome people, I think that's very important. So my feeling is I think it's a way of ... this is the reality. I don't think it's ... there's no value on it. This is the reality. We live in an open society, and if someone wants to come be engaged in Judaism, we need to bring them and welcome them, make them feel part of the community.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. And Rabbi Averbach?
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
She said it so well. I failed to mention before that I have inherited our synagogue Temple Etz Chaim from two long serving rabbis. Before me there was Rabbi Spiegel for 19 years, and before him was Rabbi Paskow, who somebody told me when Thousand Oaks, California was a 7Eleven and a gas station, Rabbi Paskow had the wherewithal to go out there and say, "We're building a shul," and he built a shul, and how indebted I am. Still, I've gotten the chance to talk to him a number of times recently, and I remember as a kid because I grew up in the area, going over there and he was a presence in our live. He was probably one of the many people helping direct me towards my path as a rabbi, so it's incredible to stand on his bima that he helped build.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
Yeah, where do you draw these lines? It gets complicated and confusing between the movements, there's disagreement. Right now the rule is I cannot officiate a wedding of people of different faiths. I can encourage them to choose one faith, I can work with them towards that, I just can't officiate. Once they're married, I can then say, "Come to our shul, be part of our religious school, be part of our community."
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
So it's a little bit hazy there, but a lot of questions come up in how were you raised in the family? Are the kids being raised as Jews? What is a Jew, I think is part of what it comes down to. If you call yourself Jewish but you're not, is that okay? If you grew up with one Jewish parent ... there's so many pieces to this. What do you do with the people who aren't [Hebrew] technically Jewish, but they feel Jewish, and they love Judaism, they embrace Judaism, they take their kids to Hebrew school every day, and they sit in shul every day, so it's how do we treat these people?
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
Rabbi Paskow, the younger and the older, have set a beautiful example for this of how do you treat these people? Anybody who comes into your shul, embrace them and feel like they're part of the community. The interfaith wedding, I need more than two minutes to discuss that, but it's something we're constantly talking about.
Justin Regan:
And Rabbi Bock?
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
I think Rabbi Michele and Rabbi Ari have put it so beautifully, and articulated some of the issues. As I said, I worked for quite a while, and still do, in encouraging Jewish choices. Having said that, not everyone who enters our synagogues are on, at least discernibly, on a path to Jewish life. However, if they're entering our synagogues, they're probably somewhat, at least in the periphery, connected with Jewish life.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
So I think that not necessarily knowing their journey, I think we have, as human beings as well as religious leaders, to welcome them and to say that the door is open. The water's warm, come on in if that's something that you wish to do. It is an interesting, as what Rabbi Ari says, is that at some point I think it is necessary to have certain things that say, "This is Jewish and this is not." I think that's part of the education because there are clearly things, but it just indicates a path.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
One of my teachers, a local rabbi and dear friend Rabbi Michael Lotker, I think says it really beautifully. He describes religion and the paths that we can take to God as like a tree. We have a tree trunk, and then extending up towards the light, or the toward the divine, or whatever we call all that, there are these branches and twigs and leaves. And within each of that, we may find our path and our way to that.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
So I think our job is to educate towards what our path is, and like Abraham and Sarah, have our tent be open, and to be welcoming, and to provide those paths and that education, and to really say that we love this, and we love you from wherever path you come from. If you're in our synagogue, thank you. We love having you here. Thank you.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. And going to a Q&A question, Sybil Niesenholtz, I am sorry if I botched that, she asks, "How do you help Jews who are under stress and are afraid to express their Jewishness during this divisive time," I cannot say words today, "In the United States? There is a lot of hate out there." And this kind of goes into something I've been talking to a lot of rabbis about, is the balance of ... just the idea of being safe, but also not being afraid of who you are.
Justin Regan:
So Rabbi Paskow, if you can start by talking to us a little bit about that.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I think it depends on what the situation is. So it depends on where you're going, and what you're doing, and there's a time to speak up, and a time to maybe be a little bit more incognito. Not incognito, but more low key, let's say. So it depends on what the circumstances are. I get it, it's frightening, there's backlash against Jewish communities, there's things that happened in this country and in other countries in Europe that the anti-Semitism comes out. So I think it depends, and there's a way to also individually talk to people about the stressful times they might be feeling right now.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
So it depends on the person and what he or she is feeling. It's case by case, where they are and what's going on. So if that makes sense.
Justin Regan:
And Rabbi Bock.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
I think that one is to always remember pikuach nefesh, the sanctity of life, that we should not put ourselves in harm's way whenever possible. Obviously, to respond if someone else is in harm's way, that we must attend to that.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
This is not an easy time. I've had discussions with people and saying, "Are you comfortable wearing a kippah out? Are you comfortable wearing a Jewish star?" And I think these are valid questions, and I think that there is something to be said of time and place for everything, and just to remember to be safe. I just want to acknowledge this is a difficult time for those questions.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
I don't know how better to answer that, just saying this is a difficult time. There is a lot going on out there, there's a lot of anti-Semitism, there's a lot of people who don't know us well, and I wish that perhaps they could know us better, and know how lovely Judaism is, and to dispel some of the myths that people think about Jews and Judaism because I think that if they knew us better they would feel much more comfortable.
Justin Regan:
This is something I've heard a lot of rabbis mention as well is the idea of kind of getting out there and making sure people know who we are. So yeah, Rabbi Averbach, your response?
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
If I were a more chutzpadik rabbi than I am, I would say now is the time we double down. Now is the time to wear a kippah and a Jewish star, and a mezuzah, and you make yourself look as Jewish as possible. I think about some of our congregants who are black, I think about some of our friends and neighbors and fellow countrymen who are black, who can't take it off, and to know that every time they go for a jog, there's a chance that they will be murdered. Every time they go to a grocery store, every time they fall asleep in their car after a long day of working, every time they are walking down the street of Los Angeles, or at the gas station. It's happened in San Bernardino the other day that they could be killed for that, is scary. They can't take that off.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
And what does it mean to be Jewish right now? If I were a more chutzpadik rabbi, I'd say, "This is when we walk around and proclaim our Judaism to the world saying some people don't like us, but there's nothing I can do about it. I can't hide from it." I'm not that chutzpadik rabbi, so I would never say that in a room of 235 people.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I wear my kippah everywhere I go. I was at the beach yesterday, which was lovely, and I wore my kippah on the beach. I forgot a baseball cap, probably would have been smarter for skin care, but there are times I don't wear a kippah and I put on a hat instead because I know that as I'm, whatever it is, getting blood drawn, there's a needle and there's a person who's doing it. I don't know who they are. I'm getting an oil change, I don't know who they are. I don't know, so I try to hide my Judaism, and I'm ashamed by that.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I agree with pikuach nefesh, we've got to take care of ourselves, but I really think that if I were stronger I'd say, "Everybody should be wearing it more proudly and strongly now because we shouldn't try to hide ourselves. We shouldn't try to pass as white normal. We should know who we are."
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. It kind of reminds me of something I heard. I think it was Rabbi Rick Jacobs, and when I one time heard him speak in a podcast about how being more outwardly Jewish also kind of forces you to be a little nicer sometimes too because you realize you're representing something.
Justin Regan:
But we have very little time left, so I think we can do one more question if everybody just does one minute quick answers. So what better way to answer a quick question than give you a very broad question that's impossible to answer in a minute. That question is: Where do you see Judaism 40 years from now? That's what I like to end my interviews with, with rabbis. So how about we start with Rabbi Bock?
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
As Rabbi Ari mentioned a while back, I think as we are right now in the middle of this pandemic, we are seeing a lot of change. I think change has been coming for a long time, and really always has. When we couldn't do sacrifices in the temple, we figured it out, and it's recorded in the Talmud, those conversations.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
So now I think we're in a new era of figuring it out. At the same time, I think we're discovering that we miss being together, we miss praying together, we miss our community. I think that is something that may even be more revived, however I think that things may change in terms of going forward perhaps in smaller groups, perhaps smaller minyan. I'm not sure about the synagogue buildings, but I hope so. I love synagogues, and I think that flexibility and choice is going to be key in looking forward.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. And Rabbi Averbach.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
I'm very hopeful about the future. I think that we are growing stronger. I know that we are called the ever dying people, so I think in 40 years we'll still be saying, "How come Judaism is dying, and what's going on with the movements and whatever else?" But I think that we are getting stronger. There are passionate people teaching beautiful Judaism, and learning, and soaking it up.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
Thanks to now all of the online ways, I have people emailing me, congregants who I don't even know that well emailing, "Did you see what Jonathan Sack said?" At 6,000 miles away. Just, "Did you hear, did you read this?" It's beautiful that this is still out there, and I think it's growing in a really wonderful way. I think we stand on the shoulders of giants, and we continue to build on that.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much. And Rabbi Paskow.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I will add that we are inveterate optimists. I am optimistic that we will be strong in 40 years, and there will be a vibrant liberal Judaism. We all represent the liberal branches, if you will. I like to joke and say I'm re-conservadox, taking the best of all the different approaches.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
This is a time of change, accelerated change, and I think it'll bring out some really good things that maybe we needed to address that we haven't done, and it's pushing us forward and will be using the technology. I really wanted to use this quote from Weight Watchers, "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten." So as they say in the Army, you have to improvise, adapt, and overcome.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I think that Jewish life will continue to be vibrant, there will be tremendous Orthodox life. Nobody expected Orthodoxy to be so vibrant in the modern times, and there will also be a dynamic and vibrant and creative sense of if you want to say liberal Judaism or modern Judaism. I'm really excited about some of the thing that are happening now, and like Rabbi Averbach said, all of the tremendous opportunities to connect with people from all over, which is for all of us.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
I think I'm very hopeful also.
Justin Regan:
Thank you very much, and thank you all panelists. I really appreciate it. Once again, thank you to everyone who made this possible, and to everyone tuning in right now. This was ... I really enjoyed myself, I had a great time. Once again, you can check out American Rabbi Project, I put the link in the chat. We are once again all grateful. If anybody wants to say goodbye as well and say thanks, I'm about to end the meeting.
Rabbi Ari Averbach:
Thank you so much, Justin, and to Brandeis, and to Judy and Elaine. This was too short, but it was wonderful.
Rabbi Lisa Bock:
Thank you to Brandeis for doing this, for Elaine and Judy, and especially to you, Justin. Really a pleasure to work with ... be here with Rabbi Michele and Rabbi Ari.
Rabbi Michele Paskow:
Thank you, and also thank you to Justin. Check out some of his podcasts, they're really interesting with the people he's spoken with, and thank you to Brandeis for hosting this, and to people that were sending things in the chat. Thank you for all your nice comments, and be well, take care, zaiga zunt.
Justin Regan:
Thank you. You can get the podcast wherever you download podcasts. American Rabbi Project, check it out.