Amy Cohen:
Welcome, and thank you for joining us this afternoon for our webinar, Newly Defined: Successful Parenting and Working Parenthood Amidst COVID-19. My name is Amy Cohen, and I'm a member of the class of 1985, and a vice president of the Alumni Board. I'm also proud to say I'm the co-chair of the Brandeis Women's Network. The goal of which is to strengthen the relationships and connections between Brandeis alumni, and facilitate women helping women in all aspects of their lives.
Amy Cohen:
If you haven't already, you can find us on Facebook, just search BrandeisWomen, it's one word and request to join. Before our speakers begin, I have a few quick announcements to share. As I hope you know, there's a lot of virtual programming going on right now for Brandeis alumni, family and friends. Just to highlight a few. Tomorrow evening, there's a panel discussion on breaking into the television and film industry; breaking in and moving up. There's a guided meditation series starting next week, and we have programming for children.
Amy Cohen:
The Brandeis Women's Network also has an upcoming webinar on self-branding and LinkedIn. I encourage you to check your email, alumni website and social media for information on what's happening and how to join. We have two polling questions we want to run by you. I ask that you fill these out right now and then we'll begin the program. So, Daniel can you put up the first question? What is your greatest stressor right now? The second question, what are the ages of your kids?
Amy Cohen:
I would now like to turn the program over to Talee Potter. Talee is a member of the Alumni Board, my co-chair of the Brandeis Women's Network, and someone I'm really happy to call my friend. Talee is going to introduce our panelists.
Talee Potter:
Thank you, Amy, and thank you, everybody for joining us today. We have three distinguished speakers joining us today. The first is Dr. Alisa Samuels-Stein, who is a child psychologist who oversees self-contained programs at the elementary school level. She provides school based therapeutic services for Students with emotional behavioral needs, as well as group counseling for students.
Talee Potter:
She consults with staff and parents regarding the social, emotional and learning needs of the students. Alisa is a member of the class of 1995 from Brandeis, and she earned her PhD in school psychology from Fordham University in 2001.
Talee Potter:
Dr. Anuja Lee is an infectious disease specialist in New York, affiliated with New York North Shore University Hospital. She's board certified in internal medicine. She received her undergraduate at Brandeis, class of 1994, and her medical degree from Ross University School of Medicine. She did a residency at Drexel University College of Medicine and her fellowship at Mount Sinai Hospital and Medical Center. Debi Yadegari, is the founder and CEO of MommaWork, a management consulting firm that strategically partners with companies to provide comprehensive modern day support for the working parent.
Talee Potter:
Once a wall street lawyer, she's now a working parent advocate and authority in matters relating to wellness in the workplace, lactation accommodation law and working parenthood. Debi is a certified lactation counselor, parenting expert and mother of five. She's a sought after speaker and frequent contributor to Working Mother Magazine and various HR publications. She received her BA from Barnard College in Columbia University and her JD from George Washington Law School. She's wife to Stevie Yadegari, class of 1995.
Talee Potter:
Prior to MommaWork, Debi served as in-house counsel at a leading international investment bank, and began her career as a big law attorney. In 2005, she traded her briefcase for a diaper bag, and she's been supporting working parents ever since, because she believes working parents should not have to choose between their personal goals and professional success.
Talee Potter:
Turning over to Debi.
Debi Yadegari:
Okay, unmute. I apologize for that technical difficulties to begin. All right. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm excited to be here and dive deep into the topic. I know we're all nervous. Right now the poll showed that 37% of us are most fearful of contagion, and coming in second of our fears is our children's well-being. I can't think of any better guest to have with us today than Anuja and Alisa.
Debi Yadegari:
20% of the panel is concerned about working parenthood, the balance of childcare with work and homeschooling, so we'll be tackling that as well. But I'd love to get started by asking you, Anuja, to just give us a lay of the land. I know you are on the front lines, risking your life day in and day out. You're a working mother of two. Let us know, what is the status of coronavirus right now? What's going on? Give us an update.
Anuja Lee:
Thanks. Hi, Debi. Right now, I feel like we're coming to a little bit of a, what we call stand... Neutralizing on the amount of patients coming in. We really went from zero to 120 a few weeks ago, and we've just started to see the effects of social distancing, probably within the last week and a half where we are definitely clearing out the hospitals, getting back in patients that are just without the coronavirus and maybe even starting to do some elective surgeries.
Debi Yadegari:
Thanks. I know that I asked you this question before, but I know the audience would love to hear, do you see this affecting children? I think that there is, in the news, we're told children are safe, but how much can we rely upon that?
Anuja Lee:
Children in general have not succumbed as severely than the adults. We don't see a lot of admissions for children, when they do have their virus it tends to be mild for them or even asymptomatic. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, it's not 100%. There are some children who will get very sick, but in general, we could say most of the cases are in adults, and very, very rarely are children affected seriously.
Debi Yadegari:
Thank you. I know that some schools have already said that they're closed for the rest of the year. From your point of view, do you think that there's any chance that any of the schools within the United States could open for what remains of the school year?
Anuja Lee:
Probably not, and I'll tell you why. I think we do need to start opening up things, but it has to be a very laid out organized plan to figure out how we're going to maintain a lack of new cases, while we start opening things up.
Anuja Lee:
It will be a slow process. I think that's what you'll see happening over the summer, where we try to figure out how to keep some physical distance with social integration. But I doubt that the schools will be able to open at this point. Honestly don't know the answer, but I think that-
Debi Yadegari:
Yeah, of course. I know in New York, the plans for setting up extra hospitals externally at universities and the Javits Center have gone away. How are the hospitals doing as far as capacity? Are they able to handle any uptick in capacity if we do begin to unwind some of the lockdown?
Anuja Lee:
Right now, we're okay. Yes, I think that the hospitals are starting to be able to clear out. Unfortunately, what I do see is the ICUs are still pretty inundated. They aren't clearing out as fast, but we definitely, in our hospital systems and on floors, just in the regular medicine floors, we're definitely clearing out and probably will be able to handle any extra cases that come in.
Debi Yadegari:
Okay. I know it's been a difficult time for many people who aren't just dealing with coronavirus and people falling sick, but people who just get injured. I know personally my son took a tumble with a skateboard and he actually broke his collarbone. We called the orthopedist and he said, "Don't go to the hospital, don't get an X ray. Let's just wait it out." Typically, this is a situation where I might have even called an ambulance and rushed him somewhere but now we just toted him home. What does the healthcare system look like for people who might encounter other sicknesses? Is it still someplace that we should steer clear of these days?
Anuja Lee:
No, that's a good point. I think definitely, we were trying to keep everyone away because it's so highly infectious and contagious, but there's definitely less cases and I think they are able to clear out the children's hospitals and the ERs to make one side non-COVID. That's the goal. We have certain hospitals now that we're trying to make surgical hospital, certain ERs that we're trying not to have too many COVID patients sent there.
Anuja Lee:
There's plans in place for exactly what you're saying. Yes, I think that we are easing up and people are starting to come in now as we're seeing more of the non-COVID cases being sent in.
Debi Yadegari:
I think a common fear for many is take out, can you speak a little bit to, is there risk for us going to get the mail, receiving packages from UPS? I know people who Lysol their boxes and leave them outside for two days, people who will order in a hot pizza but won't order in sushi. What are your recommendations there?
Anuja Lee:
Again, it depends on where you get your food from, how well it's being handled over on the other end. But there is a little bit of a risk. I do think that within because we do know somewhat about the virus that it can be on some cardboard surfaces, plastic surfaces, copper, certain things that we do bring in. I think it's okay, I think it's okay, you do have to be clean out the stuff, wash your hands frequently. I think we're getting to a point where all the places who are delivering food are very careful, but there is a risk and I do still think people should be careful with the takeouts.
Debi Yadegari:
Anuja, we have someone who's raising their hand and has a question. I'm going to open up the mic to Ira Ungar. Ira? Okay.
Ira Ungar:
I'm here.
Debi Yadegari:
Okay.
Ira Ungar:
You hear me now?
Debi Yadegari:
Yes.
Ira Ungar:
Okay, great. This isn't about the COVID, it's about my son is starting Brandeis this fall, and I wanted to find out what's the best way for him to get special education services. He has some learning challenges.
Debi Yadegari:
Ira, I'm sorry, I can't really address that on this. I don't know if it's something that maybe somebody in the panel from Brandeis might want to answer via the chat. But at this point, we're just covering some of the implications of parenting during COVID.
Ira Ungar:
Okay.
Debi Yadegari:
Sorry, I wish I could help more there.
Ira Ungar:
Okay. Thanks.
Debi Yadegari:
You're welcome. Okay. We have the thumbs up to order in food during this crisis. We don't have to fight for it. Okay. That takes us off a little bit of the stress. But what are your thoughts on summer camps? Do you think that it will be safe for them to open this summer?
Anuja Lee:
I know some of the summer camps have reached out to the Department of Health and even the division of infectious disease at Northwell. I think they are trying to come up with a plan. I don't know about the sleepaway camps yet, but I do know the local camps are trying to come up with how can they cohort the campers? Maybe they have seven campers, they all come in one day, everybody gets temperature tested, priority camp, everybody gets COVID tested, and then you have those seven kids together the whole time. If one of those kids should be have a fever, all the kids have to go home.
Anuja Lee:
Something... That's not exactly this is what we're trying to come up with, little scenarios of how summer camps can go on. Because, as you know, these children have been really in their homes for a while and they really need to get out. There is plans being put into place and to see how we can do that for the kids. There may be some summer camps that are opening up this summer.
Debi Yadegari:
I know some of the sleepaway camp have sent letters out saying that their hope is to bring the staff in first, quarantine them for a couple of weeks and then bring the kids in. Of course, I don't know much about medicine or this area, but I'm thinking if you quarantine the counselors and then one of them falls ill, you're going to have to pull the whole program, or start the whole quarantine over again from scratch.
Anuja Lee:
That's right. That's exactly right. The quarantining the camp counselors sounds like a good idea. But you'd have to do the same thing with the children, meaning you'd have to either test them or come have them... Just like you do a lice check when they come into camp, I think it would be very similar. It would have to be everyone.
Anuja Lee:
Two weeks is good, but you can still shed virus for a while. If one of those people was sick, and they were asymptomatic, and they're shedding virus, it would be very hard without actually testing everyone.
Debi Yadegari:
I think the uncertainty of this all is the greatest stress for all of us, it's the unknown, how do we deal with that? Alisa, I know that you deal with that day in and day out. What are you telling your parents about the unknown of school next year, camp this summer? How are you advising parents?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Sure. Well, right now we're actually in the midst of planning for next year, because we don't know if schools will open or not, we're hopeful that they will. We're making plans. I specifically worked with children with special needs. We're setting up our plans for next year, as if the schools will be open. Of course, if they don't, we'll accommodate for that. We're also making recommendations for the summer as well.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
We're planning for the future that we're all going to go back but we also understand and we are starting to have contingency plans in place, as well as everyone has been home for a long time, understandably so there's going to be a certain amount of regression, in terms of academic regression, and emotionally, it might be a little bit scary for children and staff to go back. Those are the things that we're talking about as educators and psychologists to plan for next year.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Unfortunately, I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know if we will be going back to school next year or not. I'm hopeful that we will.
Debi Yadegari:
Yeah. How do you recommend people deal with their summers if we are in a situation where we are in a situation where this continues? We saw that a majority of the people polled do have kids of summer camp age, or even teen, 44% have teenagers on the line here. Those are critical years for college prep and setting yourself up to go to a great college like Brandeis. What are your recommendations there?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely. I always like to have Plan A, Plan B and Plan C, because we don't know what the summer will look like. Really depending on the age of the child or adolescent will determine what we can do. For example, if I have a teenager, and they were planning on going on a team tour or to summer camp, or even a summer job, which those things might not be... We plan on doing that, because it might happen. That might be my Plan A but if that doesn't happen, then certainly if you're planning for college, there's so many different ways that you can do some type of community service while keeping social distancing, which I would encourage people to do. Not only are they doing something nice for the community, but it also probably looks good for college as well and it's keeping you busy. In terms of younger children-
Debi Yadegari:
Wait, going back to that, does that mean that we need to be encouraging our kids to start businesses online, learn Chinese-
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Not at all. That's not-
Debi Yadegari:
Is it okay is they just play a lot of video games?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
I think that neither. I think it's a real balance in terms of occupying our time. For adolescents, making sure that they have the opportunity to still engage with their friends, even if it's virtually right now, getting outside, while keeping social distancing is important and exercising. No, I don't suggest that they don't have to save the world, but really, even if it's calling a grandparent or calling someone that they know might be a little bit lonely, things of that nature. Really reaching out. They could certainly bring food to hospitals, or there are a variety of different outreach programs that they can get involved in, things of that nature.
Debi Yadegari:
I think that's a great suggestion. I know many people who have put that on their children's agenda that you must call grandparents or you must check in on them because I think it's very easy for children to get caught in their world of school and video games, and being social online with a friend and to step outside and look at the suffering of others, even if it's just the loneliness of an older relative, it gives them a sense that they're giving back even if it's a small way, even if it's just 10 to 15 minutes of their time.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely.
Debi Yadegari:
I think that... I'm sure you would agree, that goes towards the well-being too, that's part of taking care of ourselves.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely. It's really so important that our social emotional well-being that we think about that and are cognizant of that, not only for ourselves, but for our children. In terms of really getting out as much as possible, I really feel that if you can go outside, go for a walk or a hike or be with your family and do a scavenger hunt, there's so many different things that you can do while keeping distant from others.
Debi Yadegari:
Absolutely. I am looking at some of the chats right now. One person wrote in that her and her husband work. It's really hard to occupy their toddler while understandably, both parents are working. I know this is an issue that I deal with a lot in my world. The question is, how much screen time is too much?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
I think that first and foremost is the safety... Someone with a toddler, safety's number one. If you're talking about a toddler that needs to be supervised 100% of the time, that has to be the number one thing. Sometimes if that means that they're in a safe place and they're watching TV for a little bit longer than they typically would, then that comes first. After that, it's really right now a big balance and a juggling act. I know there's a lot of planning that parents are doing, if there are two parents in the home, and they're both working and if one's able to change the schedule around so one can supervise the child while the other one works.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
I know parents have been doing that, but sometimes that's not a possibility. Being creative again, if you're working at home, both parents are working at home, then one parent at least can go to a different space in the home or the apartment and do their work while they're taking turns-
Debi Yadegari:
It's absolutely critical, the sharing. If you're lucky enough to have two partners in the home-
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Sometimes you don't have that.
Debi Yadegari:
Right.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
I think that that's really... Everyone's experience is different. What everyone has to deal with is different. That's what you have to bear in mind that if you're working from home and you have two people, two adults to supervise a young toddler, your situation is different than someone who maybe has to go out of the home and has to have someone come and watch their toddler because you can't leave a toddler alone, as opposed to if you have adolescence and they can be left unsupervised. What I'm going to suggest for them to do is going to be very different than what I'm going to suggest for someone that has to be supervised.
Debi Yadegari:
Right. What we suggest is that when you do have two working parents, and there are young children that need supervision, you have a meeting the night before. Who has meetings the next day? Even if you have older kids, who has to help so and so get on Zoom? You map it out. You have to have those conversations with your employer as well and get them on board.
Debi Yadegari:
Right now, I think all employers are being understanding that things are not going to be done between the hours of 8:00 and 6:00 necessarily. People might have to wait for things. Tasks may have to be shifted, moved, but you can still contribute. Luckily in the case of a toddler, hopefully there's still nap time. Babies go to bed early. If not, trying to get them on that schedule where they are turning in at 7:00 AM. Even if they wake up a little bit earlier, usually early in the morning, it's an easier time to occupy them and work with your laptop while they play blocks beside you.
Debi Yadegari:
Think about working your schedule and that of your partners around your children's needs, and just have those conversations with your employers so they know when to expect you on an offline. It has to be a team effort at this point. It's really, really difficult for everybody.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
I think that's really important, flexibility is also very important.
Debi Yadegari:
Absolutely. As you said, everyone's situation is different. I know that there are situations where there are single parents. You can't always bring in outside help. Depending on where you live, in what state, childcare workers are considered essential. Anuja, how do you feel about somebody bringing in an outside party into the house to care for your child during this period?
Anuja Lee:
I've had to answer this question a lot, and I always tell them if this is the only option you have, then you have to do it. Especially a lot of the nurses that work have asked me this, because they are either husbands are nurses as well or police officers. So, they have to both work. Therefore, I think you have to... Like you said, every case is individual, but if there's no other option, people do have people coming in, helping them out for the day and everybody has to be careful; frequent hand washing, be really aware. I told everybody go wash your doorknobs with the Lysol, just spray them down. The hand switches, the remotes. I know it's a lot of work, but you have to do it, and you have to do it.
Debi Yadegari:
Absolutely. It's always an assessment of what's the risk, what's the reward? Sometimes it's just a matter of getting by and if you need that extra help, just have those conversation with your caregiver. Make sure that they're going to and from your house, straight home, that they're not going from house to house to house babysitting on different days; one house Monday, one house Tuesday. Make sure that their behavior is within your comfort zone.
Debi Yadegari:
Again, keep the lines of communication open with both your caregivers and your employers. Alisa, we're getting some questions from the panel. I just want to put them out there. What should we tell our children about whether or not they will be going back to school in the fall? For people who are newly admitted to college, I know Alisa, you are a mother in this boat, so you can speak both with your professional hat and your personal hat on, what do you tell your child about what they can expect as an incoming freshman for the year to come?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Yes, I do have a senior in high school right now myself, the truth, is that I'm hopeful that school will start in the fall, however, there's a good chance that you might be doing remote learning. Then I always look for the silver lining. Of course, ideally, you'd want your child to get to start school in the fall. However, if they don't, then they'll be home and they'll have to support their family when they're starting this new endeavor, and they'll get to spend time with their friends from high school that they missed out on spending time with this past spring.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
I believe that it's so important that we speak to our children and give them the truth without panic. Especially it's important to validate their feelings as well, because it's such an emotional time right now for all of us and for children. Children react, whether it's a young child or an adolescent, or even adults to adults, we react to someone else's emotionality. All of our feelings are valid, whether we're fearful or anxious or depressed or angry. Sometimes we're even happy because we're getting to spend more time with people that we like, or we get to skip out on a class that we didn't want to really take this semester.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
It's just important to validate the feeling, and then move on. I really believe in mindfulness of embracing the feeling, because once you're able to do that, then you could say, all right, well, what am I going to do with this feeling now? Then you move forward.
Debi Yadegari:
By validating the feelings you mean, if your son or daughter come to you and say they're scared or they're nervous, don't say, "Don't be nervous, don't be-
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Correct. Because what happens is if you say... Let's say you say, "I'm really angry." You say, "Don't be angry." Well, not only now... First of all, the feeling is real, you do feel angry, but now you feel bad for feeling angry. Instead of saying okay, validate, "I feel angry too or disappointed." Or whatever it is that they're expressing to you, especially now because it is upsetting and angering, and sad and scary. All these feelings are real feelings, and this is a time where we have these feelings. But I think that it's important to show our coping skills and model that for our children at any age. We're all human. We're not perfect and we make mistakes and we need to timeout ourselves to regroup, and that's okay.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
I think it's important for children to see you. You need to regroup to see that okay, wait, my mom, my dad, my guardian, whoever it is that they're with is human also and has all these strong feelings but they're able to deal with it, they're able to cope in a healthy way. Whether they have the luxury of taking a run or a walk or going for a hike or a bike ride or the only time that they have because they have small children is to go take a shower and use a special shampoo that they like the smell of and really smelling that shampoo and giving themselves that time to relax.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
In terms of younger children, I know one of the questions was, are they going to go back to school next year? Children, especially younger children do very well with a routine and predictability. I think that if you say, "I'm hopeful that the schools are planning on... We're planning on you going back to school, we're hopeful that you're going to go back to school, but regardless, you're going to have a great experience in September." Letting them know that no matter what, they're going to be healthy, they're going to be okay, they're going to be learning. I think that's really what's important for them to know.
Debi Yadegari:
I think those are really good takeaways. No matter what age your child is, we need to validate their feelings. We need to acknowledge them, we need to model ways of dealing with that stress, whether it's taking a walk or just enjoying a nice shower. Those are great learning tools that we can give to our children. I think schedules are important. This point with it being the end of April, it might seem silly to be talking about schedules, but maybe not all of us on the call here have our children on schedules yet.
Debi Yadegari:
I know, with my toddler at first, I was like, "We're just going to wing it." Then as a couple of weeks went on, it was like, no, we were drawing pictures for lunchtime and for walking the dog. I saw a calm come over him and it was great. I think those schedules translate at all levels, even to working parents. Working parents need to get up, they need to get dressed, they need to take a shower, not necessarily just put your hair in a bun and put on sweats, there has to be some boundaries of however you want to draw those boundaries for yourself. Even if it's changing from one set of sweats to another set of sweats; your day sweats, your night sweats, whatever it is, we all need to schedule, we all do well that way.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely, Debi, you make a very good point because for children and then really all the way up through adulthood, we do very well with routines and schedules and a visual schedule for children, like I said that you write it on a board. For children, young children, all the way up through adolescence, really setting a schedule up for them that they can see. If a child is a non-reader, then pictures of what the day is going to look like.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Really, that's something that we all use. We use calendars as adults. I think that reduces the anxiety for them, and it also emulates what happens in school. Because oftentimes, parents will come to school and say, "I don't understand, Johnny does so well in school, but at home, he never listens to me." We're hearing that a lot right now. I think my children know what's expected of them. In school, they're expected to sit, they're expected to learn and listen. When they're home, they want to relax and play and hang out. But now, we have to set it up like it's school.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
What I would encourage parents to do, especially for younger children, is to pick a different spot than where they play. Depending on if you live in a house or an apartment, it might be a little bit more difficult. But even just a desk with a chair, so they know that when they sit at this desk and this chair, it's work time, and it shouldn't be the place where they play. If you can set a timer. A lot of children do very well where you say, "Okay, we're going to work for 20 minutes or a half an hour." Whatever it is, and then we just set that up, set up those boundaries for them, and guidelines.
Debi Yadegari:
Yeah, having a place to work is a great tip. A lot of this just comes back to the uncertainty. Anuja, a lot of us on the call are hoping that the uncertainty will go away once the antibody testing is rolled out. Can you talk to us a little bit about what the antibody test really is, what it means, what type of protection it will provide and anything else that you might want to share?
Anuja Lee:
The antibody testing is basically it's a blood test that shows if you've been or have had seen any antigen, meaning the coronavirus. We try to isolate the antibody that you would build up if you had seen that. What it really means is, we're not 100% sure yet, but what it could mean is that you have some immunity to getting COVID-19 for maybe the next few months to a year. Again, not really, really sure. It doesn't mean that you go around not washing your hands and not being careful still, because it is a brand new virus and we're learning as we go along. But when you do have the antibodies, that means at some point, you somewhere had seen the COVID antigen.
Debi Yadegari:
It's not a security blanket.
Anuja Lee:
It's not a security blanket. No, not yet. I couldn't emphasize that enough, because I do think people are banking on, "Oh, well, I've had it, I'm immune, I'm going to go out and do what I want." We can't say that for certainty yet. Right now, we think that you're immune, at least for maybe a year. But after that, maybe not, because a lot of antibodies do decrease with time, and that's why you get boosters for tetanus or boosters for other vaccines. Therefore, we don't know if this is longer than a year that your immunity would last.
Debi Yadegari:
What is the status of coming out with a vaccine? What's the timeline there?
Anuja Lee:
They're saying about 12 to 18 months, right now in the literature, hopefully sooner, but I think realistically, 12 to 18 months.
Debi Yadegari:
There's no guarantee with that either, right? From the flu vaccine, it's not 100%. It'll be a long time until we're out of the woods. Alisa, one person on the panel has shared that their child's loving this stay at home. I've heard this from other parents too at all levels. I was speaking to somebody who has a toddler who used to always cry whenever they would be dropped off at preschool, and now they're home with mommy, they get to see their teachers and friends on Zoom, it's like they're living their best life.
Debi Yadegari:
I think at the older level as well, if you have a 12 year old, there's more freedom, there's less schoolwork, there's more video game. Is there a danger of children getting too accustomed to this lifestyle? I think, especially at the younger age, when socialization is so important, and outside exposure is so important, but I think it's a good question at all levels, especially with so many children experiencing anxiety these days, pre-COVID?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely, and that why I said there's a range of emotions that everyone's experiencing. Of course, it's so important that children are socializing. However, right now, they can't, they just can't. It's not safe to have young children playing, but what they can do is maybe Zoom in with a friend, even at a very young age. Not too young, but when they can speak.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
But really, I think, keeping with routines, making sure that we're all doing our work. Of course, there's going to be... Maybe might feel like a little bit less work and you're being more supported by your parents or guardians. But also, if you have a child who's older, like a 12 year old, making sure that they also have the opportunity to have time apart from you. Really trying... Because it will be an adjustment, certainly, going back to school and to work for all of us. I think that part of it is wonderful that, and that is part of the silver lining that we're able to really slow down and connect with our families in ways that we might not have had the opportunity to do in the past. But of course, at the same time being cognizant and wary that, okay, this isn't going to be how it's... You don't want people to almost become dependent... You want them to have secure relationships with you, not be overly dependent on you. That then they're scared or fearful to go back to school or things of that nature. It really varies from age to age.
Debi Yadegari:
That makes sense. Anuja, another question out there is, we hear about a second wave coming. I know some of us are afraid that we're going to send our kids back to school. We'll start to see the light at the end of the tunnel and then they're going to turn right back around and come home. Can you talk to us about what is the second wave that we're hearing about? What does that mean, and what are people in the healthcare field thinking and talking about right now?
Anuja Lee:
Well, that's the prediction right now that with more people out there that have had the disease going around and with the uncertainty of it not knowing how many people are asymptomatic, how many people are carriers, how long the virus actually sheds? That people will go out into the community and then more people will get sick in a second wave.
Anuja Lee:
I think the whole idea is to try to implement things and put into motion, just really try not for that to happen. It may be inevitable, but the idea is like Alisa said, they're trying to make schools more... The way they're trying to come up with plans to try to keep some physical distance while being able to integrate socially.
Anuja Lee:
But that is currently the prediction that when school starts, around the time school starts, there possibly could be a second wave. We're hoping less severe, but again, unfortunately, we're not sure.
Debi Yadegari:
Is there a chance that it could mutate and be more severe?
Anuja Lee:
The virus hasn't done that yet, and it's not actually the virus that's being... It's not a really that smart for a lack of a better word. It's the antibody response that's so overwhelming because no one's seen this virus, and especially for the elderly, because you know, Debi, some kids are allergic to foods and some aren't. It's your antibody response, and why is it so aggressive for some people, and why not for some people? That's what we're seeing. Some people are reacting very, very severely to this virus. It's a whole comprehensive way of trying to suppress their immune system from just themselves.
Debi Yadegari:
Yeah, I've heard that the stronger you are sometimes, the greater the attack on the body with COVID-19. Is there truth to that?
Anuja Lee:
There's certainly a possibility. We haven't seen a lot of people that... For example, we were thinking, oh my goodness, all these immune suppressed people that are on chemotherapy and all these things, those people really didn't come into the hospital sick. The most part, they were not in the hospital at all. When they did get it, it was mild. It was probably their lack of immune system that helped them.
Debi Yadegari:
Interesting. That's really interesting. What is the latest on how should be treated? I've heard people say, "Get someone on ventilator as soon as possible." Now, I'm hearing, "Keep them off a ventilator because they're not going to come off." We keep hearing these horror stories of people being turned away from a hospital and then they die two days later because they were sent away because they were only 30, and they could walk there. Therefore, they were healthy enough to go home. If God forbid any of us were to find ourselves with symptoms, what is the recommendation?
Anuja Lee:
It depends on the symptom really, with shortness of breath, with any respiratory symptoms, if you can't walk, if you could walk, and if you're short of breath, we definitely encourage coming to the hospital. A lot of times somebody just has a fever or just has diarrhea. Those people were encourage just to stay home. But it's really the respiratory, when you start to have trouble breathing, we tell them to come in.
Debi Yadegari:
Yeah. How are you connecting with your students, now Alisa, in comparison to maybe a month ago when this first started? What are you seeing? When you interact with the teenagers, I'm trying to get here to the insight of the teenage brain being that you work in a high school, where things that might not be shared with our parents. What are things that parents on this call should recognize and realize about their teenagers?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Well, actually I work in elementary schools-
Debi Yadegari:
My apologies, I thought that you were... Okay.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
But I do work with some adolescents as well-
Debi Yadegari:
[crosstalk 00:42:42] for all children then.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Okay. Well, really age does matter in our reactions and the way our minds work and the way we experience different emotions. For our younger children, I think actually for all children, I should say or anyone, I think one thing that's been very helpful for them and just by the way, they're reacting to me and to other psychologists that I work with and we speak about it, is really touching base and keeping it going and reaching out... I do counseling, and just having that connection with people. Right now, it's through the computer or on the phone, but they really respond very well. In terms of-
Debi Yadegari:
I think it's smart because I think oftentimes, that's hard, because as working parents, sometimes children are being ignored, and we're leaving them to their devices. When they reach out to connect, sometimes it's social media and social media is a terrible place for a child to be left.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely, especially the news, that at any age we really need to filter how much we're watching. But for the younger children really should not be watching the news. If you're going to watch with your adolescent, really to be very mindful of how much you're watching. I know myself, if I sit and watch TV all day long, the news, I'm going to have a certain feeling, a certain affect. It's very important.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
[inaudible 00:44:18] adolescence and I know you would ask how they're reacting. I think a lot of them have had a sense of loss socially with their friends, but they're reconnecting via all their different visuals. I think it's really a real balance of knowing your child in terms of loosening the reins a little bit and maybe allowing them to communicate with their friends. Maybe a little bit later then you used to... We have certain rules about all technology off at a certain hour. You might let them go that extra hour because it is so important that they communicate with each other.
Debi Yadegari:
You and I discussed this, I came to you offline and I said, "My high school daughter who's 14 years old, we always had a rule on school nights, 10 o'clock, that's it, all technology gone." There are Netflix parties starting at 10:30. You gave me the reality check that this is her life and social life for teenagers right now isn't starting until later. It might be unreasonable for me to apply yesterday's rules to today's situation.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Exactly. I just think we need to be flexible... It doesn't mean that it's a free for all because that's not healthy for anybody. I think just being mindful of it, trying to find out all right, well, what's going on? Reaching out to other parents, but also a lot of the children, I think a lot of parents have come to me saying, "My son, my daughter, sitting until four o'clock in the afternoon, and that's not healthy either, because that's when they go back to college or high school and their routines, that's going to be a big adjustment for them. Maybe we'll let them sleep a little bit later than they normally sleep, but I'd be mindful of just how much we loosen the reins.
Debi Yadegari:
Yeah. There are a lot of stressors every which way. As you said, a lot of families have experienced loss or they know of somebody who's sick. Another huge stressor these days is job certainty. There are many people who have lost their job, they've been furloughed, their pay and their salary has been cut. They don't know what tomorrow will bring. It's sometimes hard to insulate our children from those realities when we're all under one roof. You can't just go away and take that time for yourself. Any suggestions for dealing with how to talk to your kids about job loss and any of the other unknowns?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely. Again, I keep on going back to this, but depending on their age will determine how you actually communicate with them. However, there's always adult talk, the actual stress that you're feeling about financial loss, because it's a reality for many, many adults right now. I would keep that private, as private as I can to just speaking with my spouse or my partner or my friends, but really away from your shot, from your children. That causes them a lot of anxiety. What they need to know is that like that, they're going to be okay.
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
It's okay to say to them, "You know what, we're not going to get that new car or go on vacation or get a new TV or whatever it is. Right now we need to watch our money, but we have enough money for food, we're going to be okay." Assuring them that... Children always want to know how does everything affect them? That's what they want to know. They take their cues from you. If they see you very anxious, and, of course, you're going to be anxious, it's a valid feeling, but that's something that I wouldn't really express to them all of your anxiety about your job loss, I would really tailor it to their age, because that's something that would be much more difficult and very anxiety producing and something that they can't control.
Debi Yadegari:
I think that's great advice, back to all ages. When you talk to your children, the advice, the words, the guidance that you give, keep it... The backdrop should be how does this affect them? How does this affect the child when you're-
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely. Also, really, you can gauge from them... I always say you give them the facts, and then they let you know what they want to know. They'll ask you the questions. Don't give too much information. Just give them the basics and then whatever else that they want, then you provide them with that information.
Debi Yadegari:
Right. There's a lot of jokes about that in teaching the birds and the bees, right?
Alisa Samuels-Stein:
Absolutely.
Debi Yadegari:
This is awesome. There are a few other comments coming in. A follow up question for you, Anuja, in terms of the antibody testing, by when and how are we going to know if the presence of the antibodies will actually provide immunity?
Anuja Lee:
I guess this is all time. Timing would probably be key because as we can start testing antibodies and when they start testing antibodies, they can do it monthly, when we have the tests rolled out. Northwell, the health system, we will start it Friday morning for employees. That's going to be... Then those employees will be followed, meaning they're going to be tested the antibodies. It would be nicer if we could get the qualitative to see how much antibody, but we don't have that yet. Ideally, what they're going to do is they're going to take... I'm just speaking from my experience, I don't know what they're doing everywhere else, but I know at Northwell, they're taking all the employees that do test positive on Friday, and they're going to cohort them and they're going to follow them for the next year.
Debi Yadegari:
Then the thinking is that you test them again, and maybe the antibodies are gone?
Anuja Lee:
Correct. We'll see how long that lasts and what percentage of people are able to maintain their immunity.
Debi Yadegari:
Interesting. Then I would think that another interesting question would be, is testing positive in the antibody test versus receiving the vaccine, which one is more protective? Will people who test positive still need the vaccine?
Anuja Lee:
Depending on how long you keep your immunity. If we find out in a year, your antibodies are gone, you would need the vaccine again. Like we get influenza every year or you get the tetanus every 10 years. We now know that the pertussis vaccine, so we added that on to the tetanus vaccine. We know the pertussis wanes also like the antibody meaning.
Anuja Lee:
You might is the answer. If you have no more antibodies then you might need to get the vaccines still. But most viruses we do become immune to, thank goodness, this one is not like influenza. Influenza is a very different virus, and it's hard to explain, but it has these different A, B, C Clades and we don't know which one is out there for the season. That's why we need an annual influenza vaccine.
Debi Yadegari:
Thank you. All right. For the last question, Anuja, and your answer is going to depend on whether or not there is a run on above the ground pools this summer. If camps do open, whether there are summer camp, sleepaway camps, or just local day camps, are we safe sending our kids there knowing that most likely they won't get sick? Is it safe? I would love to hear your thoughts from the child level, the safety of our children, but then also the risk of them traveling to and from camp in the case of a day camp and potentially bringing germs home?
Anuja Lee:
Again, I think there would have to be a lot of things change to make it safer. Like I said at the beginning, I think cohorting those eight children, they always go to and from camp, they stay in a group, they eat lunch together. There will be a lot of Purell and hand washing. If one of those kids get sick, all those kids have to stay out of camp.
Anuja Lee:
It would be a lot to do, but I think it's possible if you're camp is small and able to take that on. I know some of the local swim camps, I know my partner runs at a yacht club. They have a camp there and they're doing so many things. They're going to have virtual swim team competitions. The other swim team will be in another place and they'll be in another place. Only five kids are competing at once. Then the other five will come after these kids leave. It would be a process but you would have to feel what you would have to feel safe with.
Debi Yadegari:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. One last question... Second to last question before... Okay, is swimming safe? I am assuming if they have their own pool then there's no risk there. But I guess if there's no place to go, can I go to my neighbor's pool and swim? What if they just got out of the pool, can I jump in after them?
Anuja Lee:
Okay, hi, Shauna. Yes, swimming will be safe. I think the chlorine is just as strong as soapy water. So swimming is okay. We fully expect to swim a little this summer.
Debi Yadegari:
Awesome. Well, our time is practically up. I know we didn't have a chance to dive into working parenthood too much. If anybody wants to contact me afterwards, feel free to check out my website and you can reach me there mommaworks.com. But meanwhile, it was a pleasure to connect with both you, Anuja and Alisa and I think Amy has some final thoughts.
Amy Cohen:
I do, and thank you, the three of you so much for doing this. I have children that are in college and beyond and I found this so interesting. I was taking notes on everything you were saying so I would know what to say to them. I think you're right, it doesn't matter what the age. Thank you very much. Anuja, please stay safe and thank you for all you're doing right now.
Amy Cohen:
I also want to thank everybody for attending. I want to let everybody know this is being recorded and we'll share it. So, stay tuned for that. On a lighter note, the Brandeis Women's Network is always looking for people to host events and ideas for events. Please, if you have something, contact either Talee or me via the Facebook page, and please stay safe, be well, and we look forward to seeing you at future events both virtually and hopefully in person soon. Thank you.