Ron Liebowitz:
So, we're now switching gears, that's what we're doing. It's my honor, my great honor to present the Alumni Achievement Award today, the highest form of university recognition given to our alumni. The award honors Brandeis graduates who have made distinguished contributions to their professions or chosen fields of endeavor. Some of the past winners include, and you probably know these folks, Thomas Friedman, Class of '75, Foreign Affairs Columnist for The New York Times. Marta Kauffman, Class of '78 and David Crane, Class of '79 who are co-creators of the TV series Friends and Deborah Bial, Class of 1987, founder of the Posse Foundations, Collage Access Initiative and by the way a newly elected member of the university's board of trustees. So, it's my honor now to welcome the 2018 Alumni Achievement Award recipient, the actor director, producer activist, and member of the Brandeis Class of 1982, Tony Goldwyn. Tony. Oh we have to get a picture right away? You wait here.
Tony Goldwyn:
Thank you. I'll wait here.
Ron Liebowitz:
Okay. All right.
Tony Goldwyn:
Hello everyone.
Ron Liebowitz:
Just wait. Before presenting the award let me say a few words about Tony. Growing up, Tony wasn't that interested in joining the family business, the film industry, until he tried out for a high school play and realized how much he loved acting. He credits Brandeis with developing his approach to acting. In particular, he cites Ted Kazanoff, acting teacher and long time head of the theater department. After college, Tony headed off to drama school in London, then did stage work in New York City. He got his big break in the 1990 movie, Ghost, where he played the movie's villain. Hard to believe you could play a villain, but in any case, he played the movie's villain. In 2012, he took on another iconic role that of US president, Fitzgerald Grant III, in the TV series Scandal.
Ron Liebowitz:
I must say, coming here I stopped off in the tents for lunch and at least at three tables, maybe more, I sat down and I introduced myself. I said, "I'm Ron Liebowitz", and "Oh, you're the president, but we're really waiting to see president Fitzgerald". I got that at least three times. Along the way Tony has appeared in many movies and television shows, playing Neil Armstrong in the HBO miniseries, From the earth to the moon, and Tarzan, in the animated Disney feature.
Ron Liebowitz:
He has also had roles in plays by fellow Brandeis alumna, Theresa Rebeck. In addition to his prolific acting career, Tony has honed his directing and producing skills. He has directed multiple episodes of Scandal, as well as Dexter, Law and order, Damages and Grey's anatomy. A film he directed, A walk on the moon, won a special recognition from the National Board of Review for excellence in filmmaking. And in true Brandeisian style, Tony has balanced a successful career with advocacy for the causes that matter most to him. He serves as an ambassador for Stand Up To Cancer and for the humanitarian relief organization, AmeriCares.
Ron Liebowitz:
He recently joined the board of trustees at the Innocence Project. And he has not shied away from calling out injustice wherever he sees it, including in Hollywood. With immense pride, I present Tony Goldwyn with the Alumni Achievement Award, and I want to read this. This is what it says on the award. First, I'm going to give this to you and we'll take another picture in a minute. One second.
Tony Goldwyn:
You gave it too early.
Ron Liebowitz:
Yes. I have this big citation and picture down here, but it's too big to hold up, but this is what it says, "Tony Goldwyn, Class of '82, 2018 Alumni Achievement Award", And it says, "Acclaimed actor, director, producer, and activist who has played iconic roles in Ghost and Scandal, and has used his fame as a platform to advocate for a number of social justice and humanitarian causes. Please join me in congratulating Tony on all his accomplishments".
Tony Goldwyn:
Thank you all.
Ron Liebowitz:
So, in a little while, Tony will be joined onstage by university professor Anita Hill, for what I'm sure will be a fascinating discussion about activism in Hollywood. But first I'd like to call on professor Alice Kelikian, the chair of the program in film, television, and interactive media, who will ask Tony a few questions first. Alice, where are you?
Alice Kelikian:
I am here.
Ron Liebowitz:
Come on up. Should we bring Tony up too? Tony, Come on up.
Tony Goldwyn:
Where do I sit. Here?
Alice Kelikian:
Right there.
Tony Goldwyn:
All right.
Alice Kelikian:
Well, Tony, thanks so much for coming.
Tony Goldwyn:
My pleasure.
Alice Kelikian:
We first met in 2006, when you brought out L'ultimo bacio or The last kiss...
Tony Goldwyn:
That's right.
Alice Kelikian:
To campus.
Tony Goldwyn:
Which was a film I directed.
Alice Kelikian:
Yes. And you've been an incredible friend to Brandeis.
Tony Goldwyn:
Thank you. I think Brandeis has been an incredible friend to me.
Alice Kelikian:
So, going from there. What are your two most enduring memories of your time at Brandeis?
Tony Goldwyn:
Oh gosh. I had a flashback as I was sitting in the audience.
Alice Kelikian:
Tell us about it.
Tony Goldwyn:
Okay, this is not your typical reverend college story, but I was a transfer student. I came as a junior. My first two years I spent at Hamilton College. I was desperate to be an actor. I had this burning desire and when I was at Hamilton, which is a small school in upstate New York, I walked in and got the lead in the first play that I auditioned for. And I was like, "This is easy," and I was feeling pretty full of myself. And I came to Brandeis and I couldn't get a part. I auditioned for all the plays the second I got here, and by that I came here because it had what was reputedly a very serious theater department.
Tony Goldwyn:
And what I can say about Brandeis, what has stayed with me and what I'm so grateful for is, Brandeis takes the arts as seriously as any other discipline at the university. And that's really what drew me here. Cause I knew I could get a combination of serious theatrical education and also a great academic education. And that the two were one in the same. Anyway, the academics started out great, but the theater didn't start out so good cause I wasn't getting any parts. So, I was roundly rejected and I said, "Well, that's not going to stop me".
Tony Goldwyn:
And after this disappointment, I was in the hall down here and I saw a sign that said "Auditions for a Hollywood feature film this afternoon". And I went into the office and I said, "What is that?" And the secretary, whoever it was, I forgot who it was. It was the administrator, said, "There's a film producer coming to audition people for a movie. And some of our grad students are being allowed to audition for him". And I said, "Well, can undergrads audition for this?" And she said, "No, you really can't. It's really just for a hand selected group of grad students". So, I said to myself, "I'm going to that audition".
Tony Goldwyn:
And I came into the theater and there was the group of grad students who were here with this elderly gentlemen. I'm sorry to take up all your time, but it's a funny story.
Alice Kelikian:
No, it's your time.
Tony Goldwyn:
There was a book... As it turns out it was never made into a movie, but it was called... You may know it. It was the story of the Jewish ghetto, in the Warsaw ghetto, during World War II. And it was a true story of a young man who fought in the resistance. And rose up again against the Nazis after the occupation. I think it was called The Survivor or something. And it was an extraordinary story of courage, but it was about this young man and this guy was going around to different colleges to find young actors. And I crashed this audition. And I walk into this theater, and this is what flashed when I came. Theater students are very earnest.
Tony Goldwyn:
And when you start in acting class, the thing you most want to do is experience and share the deepest most emotive emotions you can muster. And the producers sat there. And one of the teachers said to him, "We have a presentation for you". Now, the movie was about the Warsaw ghetto and this group of the young people that rebelled against the Nazis and what was happening. This group of students got on this stage right here. And I was in the back of the audience having not been invited to this. And they stood in a group, and this brilliant teacher named Nola Chilton, who I had studied with years later in New York, who really was brilliant. But the exercise she chose was the following. They all stood on the stage. There were about 20 people, and they're all talking to each other and you couldn't quite tell what was happening.
Tony Goldwyn:
And then all of a sudden they start to gag and you realize what they were doing was an improvisation at a camp, in a gas chamber. And it was horrifying. And it went on for about 20 minutes. And by the end, they'd all perished. And this producer who'd come to see these young, vibrant people had no idea what to say. He was completely shocked. He was very upset. Then he said, "Could we maybe do some just improvisations of like young people in love? Because there's sort of a love story built into this thing". And somebody got up and they came in. And I threw up my hand and said, "I'll do it". And so I ran up onto the stage with all these kids who I didn't know, I was younger than them. And they were like, "Why are you here?" I guess that was the thing that maybe... Tenacity is important in my game. Anyway, that was not what you were expecting Alice, was it?"
Alice Kelikian:
No. But you've brought Conviction here twice, once as a very secretive passion project. So, secretive that no one came to the Wasserman Cinematheque.
Tony Goldwyn:
I blocked that out of my memory. I assumed it was packed.
Alice Kelikian:
It was packed for...
Tony Goldwyn:
For the premiere.
Alice Kelikian:
For the premiere, and your passion project is all about social justice and your political work is all about social justice. So, how do you negotiate that tension with all these bad guys you've played. I'm thinking on Dexter, you are a shrink who gets rich ladies to kill themselves? The Last Samurai, a xenophobe. Matlock.
Tony Goldwyn:
Matlock? Wow you're going back?
Alice Kelikian:
Yeah I love that show. So, it's sort of interesting...
Tony Goldwyn:
I don't see any tension. I see myself as a working actor. And I like to play a lot of different parts in terms of the work I choose to do as a director and a producer, it's a little bit different. Sometimes I get hired to do a job like The Last Kiss I was hired to direct that movie. Well in another one, in a romantic comedy I did, I was hired to direct Someone Like You, but movies like Conviction, which I developed and it was a true story based on an Innocence Project case. I assume a lot of you know what the Innocence Project is, but it's devoted to freeing people who've been wrongfully convicted of crimes and have languished often decades in prison for crimes they didn't commit. And there's an incredible story that's actually based in Boston that I wanted to tell. So, as a storyteller, when I'm going to commit years to a project, which is what it takes to get something done, it needs to be something that I feel deeply committed to.
Tony Goldwyn:
And often stories that have a social justice component feel as long as they're great pieces of drama or very entertaining stories, if it has that aspect to it as well, that's super attractive to me.
Alice Kelikian:
And you were very helpful in bringing Kerry Washington to Brandeis, who played Anita Hill in Confirmation. And we're grateful to you for that. It was a huge hit. And I'm thrilled to now introduce Anita Hill, who'll be joining us for discussion of activism in Hollywood. Thank you university professor.
Alice Kelikian:
So, some of the questions we got from the audience were, MeToo, Time's Up, the Commission. And I know that we thought about explaining some of the differences.
Anita Hill:
Right. Didn't know that. Yeah. So, it is. I think some people confuse the three different groups. I say about the Commission that I'm doing the sort of boring act of activism. And that is the part where you try to put the ambitions of the activism into policy and practices, in the organizations that are members of the Commission. And we have 25 organizations and they represent the studios and the guilds and unions as well as the agencies and members of the music industry.
Anita Hill:
So, what we are trying to do is to take this energy that we have right now around issues of sexual harassment, sexual violence, and more broadly around issues of diversity and inclusion and put them into policy forms that the different organizations can actually put into play in their own organizations and throughout the industry. So, that's what the Commission is about. I do also have an affiliation with Time's Up. Time's Up is really one of those organizations that really just sprang up from the moment. But, it didn't sort of happen on its own, it happened because a number of actors came together and said, "We are tired of sexual violence. We're tired of abuse of power, and time's up on just making excuses about it. And let's organize to do somethings in the industry".
Anita Hill:
And it wasn't just actors. There were people like Shonda Rhimes who are very involved, there were executives and in some of the studios that have been involved. And so that's a kind of activism that I think has really benefited from the Hollywood industry because you've seen it expressed on stages like the Oscars and the Golden Globes. And you've seen the impact that the industry can have throughout the country and really throughout the world, Time's Up, has grown all over the globe. There are chapters in other continents. And so that's very exciting.
Anita Hill:
And one of the ways I think that Time's Up comes together and really shows its social justice mission is through the Time's Up defense fund. And that is a fund that was started by the people who started Time's Up, the women in Hollywood who started Time's Up. And it is aimed at finding funds for women who are experiencing sexual harassment and abuse as well as other forms of bias, and giving them an opportunity through this fund to be represented, because many times those women can not be represented. They can't find attorneys to represent them. They're low wage women and so, their claims are not going to amount to a lot of money and lawyers won't take it. The Time's Up Legal Defense Fund allows that to happen. And I'm very proud to say that I am connected with that because the National Women's Law Center is managing that fund and I'm on the board of the National Women's Law Center.
Anita Hill:
So, the MeToo movement is really kind of separate in it's itself. It's a social movement spawned by the hashtag, #MeToo. A lot of people across the world have gotten involved. And I will say this about the MeToo movement. It is not something that is organized around specific actions, but it's about sharing stories and sharing experiences. And I really think it's also like the other forms of activism, it's about building community. And I think they've done that skillfully. Some people think it's about the hashtag and it's about social media. I think that those are just platforms, but I think the real goal of the MeToo movement is to build empathy and community and they're doing an excellent job with that.
Alice Kelikian:
Tony, you've talked about your own issues of harassment in Hollywood. And of course we had the hearings of harassment in Washington. And two of the questions that the audience asks is, do you see a difference in them now?
Tony Goldwyn:
I'm sorry. Can you explain? I don't understand the question.
Alice Kelikian:
Are they issues of harassment in politics, different from the ones actors are exposed to in Hollywood?
Tony Goldwyn:
That's a question for me?
Alice Kelikian:
Yeah.
Tony Goldwyn:
No, I think it's an abuse of power in both cases. In my experience, I had several encounters myself. There was one that you referred to, that I spoke out about, was in the wake of what's happened in the past year. I was asked on a press line at an event. And I thought, well, I'm just going to tell it like it is. And I didn't out the person who had done what they did, but I thought it was worth talking about. But to me it's an approach using sexuality, distorting sexuality to be an exercise of power. And so I think politics and Hollywood have a lot in common. Fame, big egos, people seeking the spotlight, narcissism and megalomania. And those are all things that I think are endemic to abusers as well.
Anita Hill:
I would agree. I also think that if you start to think about some of the structures where it exists, some of the hierarchies that exist in places like Washington, where there's clearly a pecking order of who is more important and how do you best use whatever you can to promote yourself in this very competitive and hierarchical situation. I think you see that there are a variety of approaches that people take to elevate themselves and sexual harassment is one of those. And it comes in different forms, but I think if you looked at the different forms of sexual harassment, whether it's sexual extortion or sexual badgering, or just demeaning behavior that's sexualized, you will find all of those farms in Hollywood, and you will find all of those forms in Washington DC.
Anita Hill:
I think what we hope from this moment is that it won't entirely be like 1991. '91 we didn't have the kind of community that we have that's growing up and the people saying, "Let's do something, let's actually put some things into action". I didn't have a hashtag #MeToo, but I had letters and Alice will not tell you this, but I will, I have a letter from Alice Kelikian on her Brandeis stationary, I hope that's not a violation of any university policy, from 1991. And I will tell you that those were just as meaningful to me personally, but the beauty of where we are right now is that those letters are now much more visible. They're online, they're educating a whole generation of people who had been living in denial about the reality of this problem, and they are making it real for them.
Anita Hill:
And the stories that are coming out are heartbreaking, and they're hard people to tell, and they're hard for people to hear, but in fact, they're so necessary because even a year or two ago, we had an election and... Yes, I see air quotes out there. We had an election and there were people then who sort of didn't get why the Access Hollywood tape was so problematic. I think now they get it. And in part it's because we have heard from so many women about their own experiences and how deeply troubling they are in the lives of people who have experienced. So, I think the harassment is the same, the behavior is the same, some of the reasoning behind it is the same, but I'm very hopeful that the response is different and it will be longer lasting and permanent.
Tony Goldwyn:
The other part of the equation I think this is, it's very different now. I mean, you were such a... And have continued to be such a trailblazer on this issue, but now what feels so different is men... What happened this past year? Frankly, I think it's with Ashley Judd, who was a very well-known woman exposing Harvey Weinstein, this person who everybody in our community knew. And I don't think we knew what Harvey was doing in that way, but we knew Harvey was a monster in a lot of ways, if you've ever had to do an avid business argument with him, he was pretty rough, but the fact that he was taken down and then, days and weeks later, another person who seemed unassailable and another powerful person who seemed untouchable started to fall, it didn't seem like women were tilting at windmills anymore.
Tony Goldwyn:
And the other big component that I feel a tremendous change, is with men writ large. Like a lot of the men in this room, like me, like my colleagues who are suddenly questioning ourselves and saying... I just wrote a piece in Style magazine about a Time's Up men's meeting that Shonda asked me to go to. And it was a fascinating meeting, but the first thing, which I mentioned in this article was, the meeting started with these two experts in the issue. These two guys came and said, "Look, we just want you guys all to know..." it was all men in the room, and we want you to know and that this is not accusatory because 85% of men are not abusers or harassers. So, we know that most of you and I thought, wait a minute, that means 15% of us are. Which was very disturbing.
Tony Goldwyn:
And so we talked in this meeting and the thing that was most apparent in this group of about 250 guys, was the sense of anxiety about what's okay, what's not okay, what's allowed? One guy said, "If I speak out, am I going to suddenly get attacked for something that I may or may not have done 20 years ago? Where are the boundaries now?" And all of these questions started coming up in sometimes very mundane detail, about how to conduct oneself at work, or is it okay that I touch you or was it okay that I hug you. And I found myself asking the women I work with, because I'm kind of a touchy person.
Tony Goldwyn:
And I was like, "Is that okay with you, do you mind?" And then a friend of mine that I worked with was like, "Yeah, I touch you all the time too". But this idea of people wanting to talk about it and not necessarily always ask for permission, but in addition to one's own just level of empathy to be able to ask those questions. And it is very uncomfortable, but I think the fact that regular non harassers and abusers are, I think, highly conscious in a way that we weren't before, shines a bright light on the 15% who may have felt, it's okay. You know, what the president said in the bus was, "I get it", people that were kind of okay with that, suddenly they don't have so much cover. So, I feel like there's been a real sea change now. And it's all up to us to make sure it continues.
Anita Hill:
I actually think it's okay to deal with the discomfort. Back in the nineties, when we were grappling with some of these questions, I remember this conversation on a college campus. It wasn't this one. We were going through these trainings and discussions about harassment and this faculty member said, "Oh my God. Now I have to think about everything I say". Well, this is a college campus, and we do pay you to think. So, it just occurred to me that people were doing things without thinking, and they thought it was okay to do whatever they wanted without ever having to think about the consequences and the impact that it might have on other people. And so I think it is good to deal with these uncertainties.
Anita Hill:
We have the situations like Harvey Weinstein and we have the horrible stories about Matt Lauer. And I think though, we've got to also deal with some of the situations that aren't so clear cut, and that's where we're really going to be able to make the difference. And the way I see Hollywood activism involved is so important, is because every time I hear a talk, by some of the people from the industry, they talk about storytelling. And the storytelling of the problem of harassment needs to be retold. It needs to be told more from the point of view of the victims. The first thing often we think of is, what's this going to do to this powerful person. Even in the news articles, about the Trump tape, it was about, "What's going to happen to Trump's campaign after this".
Anita Hill:
And it should be what is happening to women and men who experienced this. That's the story that needs to be told. And that's the realism in that. But the other thing that I'm just amazed at is, the impact that Hollywood activism can have. Activism that has changed the way we think about smoking and changed the way that we think about drunk driving, has come out of Hollywood. And so I see this as a moment where we can change the sort of indifference that we express around abusive behavior of all different kinds, but especially around this issue. And I really believe that we are headed in that direction. I'm very hopeful, but I also know that it's going to take a lot of work.
Tony Goldwyn:
And it has to be unrelenting I think. I think the division that our country's experiencing politically has also been a driver in all of this. Those of us on the left side of the aisle have been pretty upset about it, but at the same time, it's galvanized people and so there's tremendous energy and politics aside, cause this should be a non political issue, in the same way that racism should be a political issue. But the fact I think it's put on all of us, a sense of personal responsibility. That if we all just sit back and throw up our hands and say, "What difference can I make". Or are sort of passive observers of our culture and our social fabric, things can really go South fast.
Tony Goldwyn:
So I think people have a sense of now going, "Wait a minute, I have got to step up". And that's very encouraging I think, and that's a real shift that you feel every day, whether it's in reaction to gun violence or... I'm trying to stay off political, I was gonna say tapes of police brutality because I feel that law enforcement is now under scrutiny in a way that it has never been. And certainly as you sit you on this issue, I think we have to stay on it.
Anita Hill:
And I think you're absolutely right that the energy that we have now actually probably started in January of last year with the march. And people thought that was really just about the election. But I actually think that that was really about really sort of putting a stake in the sand, you know you're sorting the sand and saying, "This is what our country is about. And these are the things that we are willing to stand up for. This are the things that we're willing to get on the streets for". And then it evolved into this MeToo movement and Time's Up.
Anita Hill:
And I think that, that's where people are now, that activism really is about saying, "This is what is right. These are our values". We deserve something very basic, like basic safety, whether you're talking about guns or whether you're talking about sexual violence, we deserve and we deserve to be heard.
Anita Hill:
And so I think that when you see what's happening this year or with the students... I also think though that, the seeds for this movement the MeToo movement, as well as Time's Up, and this is because I spent all of my time on university campuses. I think the seeds were planted on university campuses. There has been a tremendous amount of campus activism over the last few years. I don't think... Ron's looking at me like he's never heard of it, but I think you've seen some of it. All across the country, Charlottesville was just one example, but there were student activism all across, including Brandeis, all across the country, Columbia, Missouri, on television. There was student activism around race and racial inclusion. And there was student activism among... Especially young women, around campus sexual violence.
Anita Hill:
This is something that's been sort of brewing, and I think it will continue. And I don't know where it's going to head next. But I think we now have a group of young people who have come up through years of seeing this in places like their college campuses. And I think we might have another generation like we had in the sixties of young people continuing to be active and engaged and doing work around social justice. And if nothing else comes out of this, I think we should all be grateful to have that kind of surgence, that kind of energy, that kind of commitment, not only to issues that we care about, but to democracy itself and using free expression. So I think we're at a really good place.
Tony Goldwyn:
I really agree with that. The other thing that I would add to that, not to get too overly optimistic because we have giant challenges, is that, I was a little young to be part of the demonstrations in the sixties, but the youth generation in the sixties had a huge pushback from adults. Basically the mainstream of adults found the youth movement for the most part as something to be pushed back. And it was irresponsible. There was a lot of disagreement and offense taken at what the youth culture was doing in its activism. It's not the case now. I would say the majority of grownups, are marching with their kids. My daughters called me when they were in their twenties and they say, "We're going to..." My one daughter flew to Washington for the Women's March the first time, and then my other daughter wanted me to march with her in the gun march a few months ago.
Tony Goldwyn:
And you see parents supporting their kids. There's not that resistance. So I think that's a really good sign that they're kind of motivating us. I mean, I consider myself, I try to be as active as I can, but my kids put me to shame because they are coming of age in a generation where one of their first questions is how can I engage? How can I get involved? How can I make a difference? Okay, I'm pursuing my career, but where can I put my energies in terms of social activism and it's not just a sense of duty. It's a sense that if I don't, nothing's going to change.
Tony Goldwyn:
There's a sense of personal responsibility. Like we have to band together and push this through. In these in some often scary times, that we're living in politically, I think the world is always a dangerous, scary place. That is really a cause for optimism.
Anita Hill:
That's great.
Alice Kelikian:
Tony, there were a couple of questions about the plot of the last season of Scandal. And so I have to visit that a little bit. And I thought you guys did a great job on dealing with the whole issue of sexual harassment and what is consent and what isn't. And it sort of ended on a kind of very positive note, not as dark as the last season. How does it feel not to be president anymore?
Tony Goldwyn:
I'm very upset about it. Well, first of all, all decisions about whatever happens in a Shonda Rhimes show, there's only one... She gets all the credit. I'm sorry, the question was?
Alice Kelikian:
First you have the whole issue with Liv, I mean, did I in any way violate you...
Tony Goldwyn:
Yeah, I thought that was a very beautiful... See Kerry and I were talking about it the other day, Kerry Washington, Shonda wrote this really beautiful scene it was very simple, between Fitz and Olivia who have... For those of you who are not avid scandal fans, I'm not holding it against you, but we've had this long tortured relationship where I was President of United States and she was my lover and I was married and it was a mess. And we'd never been able to find our way together for long and toward the end, there's a rapprochement between us and we're working together and it seems sort of as their hope for... People kind of want them to get together. Anyway, the scene was a point where Fitz had, this issue would come up, and she was working on a case involving sexual abuse.
Tony Goldwyn:
And Fitz said to her, he said, "I just need to know from you, did I cross a boundary? Did I cross a line?" And I thought that was so amazing because I was a man in power. I was President of the United States. This is some years ago when their affair had started. In fact, I wasn't even president. I was a candidate for president of the United States, and she was one of the people running my campaign, and we had an affair, and I was married. And I asked her, "Did I abuse my power, and the power of my position? Did I take advantage of you?" And she's just taken aback by the question and said, "No, you didn't. I was a hundred percent in, I was a fifty percent partner in that, and we'd made that decision together".
Tony Goldwyn:
But I thought the kind of thing I was talking about a minute ago at the times of men's meeting, which I think is so positive of men asking themselves these questions, I thought it was a beautiful way to do it because you could easily say that was absolutely abusing his power. And I've heard that more than once from maybe not fans. I don't know. So anyway, Shonda again typically takes what's a mainstream entertainment and injects something really dead on in terms of social commentary.
Alice Kelikian:
So, what's it like with scandal over?
Tony Goldwyn:
It's good. It's nice to now be able to do different things. It's sad because it was a beautiful experience, but like all beautiful experiences, things come to an end. I was very grateful that she ended the show in a purposeful way. A year ago she called us all up, meaning the cast, and said, "I want to talk to you guys. I've decided to end the show after next year, the network would like it to continue, but I really have always seen this as having a definitive end. And I can't tell you what's going to happen, but I'm going to bring it to an end". And so we had a whole year to process, and she was very thoughtful about, how she and her team of writers brought this story home.
Tony Goldwyn:
And personally, I thought they did a great job of it, I felt that that name was quite true to the characters and satisfying, and that doesn't always happen. With television shows, sometimes people want to keep making the money and keep it going as long as they can and they kind of peter out. And I was very grateful that this one didn't do that. And as I was saying to Anita, the saddest part is separating from the people because it really was an extraordinary group.
Alice Kelikian:
Well, I want to thank you both for coming today. It's always a pleasure to have you as a guest and as you on the faculty and it's great. Thank you.
Tony Goldwyn:
Thank you.
Anita Hill:
Thank you all. Bye.